Workshop Air Cleaners

[Tony in Brampton]

I am looking for an air cleaner for my basement workshop. I need some opinions/experiences to help me make my decision. I was looking seriously at the WORKSHOP model at Lee Valley or Delta's version. But thanks to a previous post I called up TJV Tools to get a price on the JDS750. I am stumped now. I want a cleaner that is quiet (since it is in the basement) and is able to keep the workshop/basement/house clean. I am also wondering if the brand/model really matters or if I just need sufficient cfm to make sure it works well.

By the way, the forum is great. I get a lot of advice and inspiration here without even asking for it. Thanks.
Tony

[Leo in Thunder Bay]

Check out your local King dealer. They have one in their fall/winter flier, the KAC-650. It is 3spd, 650cfm and comes with a remote for $299.99. It is of my somewhat worthy opinion that this is a machine that is a good buy, that would present no quality problems, and is a good price.

[Ken in Regina]

Tony,

What sort of work do you do in your basement workshop, and do you have any existing power tools already pretty well under control? The reason I ask is that if you have a tablesaw or router, etc., spewing dust in copious uncontrolled quantities, an air filter isn't going to do much. The filters on all of the ones I've seen will clog up on you in short order it you aren't already catching most of the dust and debris at the source.

To give you an idea, I've got a homebuilt air filter that does about 600 cfm with a filter surface area of 400 sq. in. Before I got my dust collector I could plug the filters in a weekend of moderate messing around. Even with my dust collector, the filters still plug up too frequently, in my opinion. The dust collector came with cheap canvas bags that don't even stop all of the visible stuff, e.g. when I turn on the dust collector, I get a visible poof of dust from the top bag when it first fills with air. My next step is to get a good felt bag.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you don't already have the sources controlled pretty well first, cleaning the air after the fact is going to be tough. If you do, please ignore my babble. :-)

...ken...

[Hendrik Varju]

Hi Tony. I'm going to have to disagree with Ron. I run a professional workshop without a dust collector but with a JDS ambient air cleaner. Everytime I think of the cost of setting up a dust collector system, I think of another tool I would rather buy. Just remember that a dust collector just collects the large stuff for you but allows the fine dust to get out. The JDS air cleaner catches the fine stuff, which is what will damage your lungs. The larger wood shavings never get to the JDS because they are too heavy and just fall to the ground. The JDS catches 99% of particles 5 microns and larger and 80% at 1 micron. The efficiency goes down below 1 micron, but keeping your filters slightly dirty will help to catch the really tiny stuff.

I wear a mask while using a dusty machine like the table saw because the JDS isn't going to catch it right away (as it shoots into my face!). But within 5 minutes or so after machining, I can take off my mask and the air is amazingly clean. In fact, I can do finishing in the same room without too much trouble with dust. I leave it running until the finish has formed a film.

Depending on your shop size, the JDS 350 might suit your needs, which would save you a lot of money.

Like I said in the earlier post, if you go to TJV ask for Joe Moneypenny and tell him that Hendrik sent you in for the JDS.

I hope this helps.

Hendrik


http://www.passionforwood.com

[Chester Van Ness]

Well Tony hit the nail right on the head If you don't have your other machines hooked up to a real collector your wasting your money. The air cleaner is for the fine dust. You are on the right track with the JDS machine they tell the truth about their filters. And Tony if you need a good bag for your DC write me at my E mail address and I'll be happy to fix you up with something better than felt

[Chester Van Ness]

Hendrik: A properly designed system with a good bag will set you free from your dust mask. The JDS is a good unit but I would not run any shop with out both systems.Chester

[William Young]

Tony; Have you considered building your own? Here's mine and it's amazing how much dust this thing collects.The outside filter is an ordinary 20'X 20" spun glass furnace filter and the two inside ones are both 1 micron pleated filters at about 6.00 each. The box is scraps of OSB and the fan is something I dug out of my storage shed. I made the box 20" x 20" so that if the fan ever packs in I will replace it with a 20" box fan for around $15.00. I used to have a layer of fine dust all over everything even with a 2HP DC in operation but since I made this I have a clean shop where I can even spray laquer and other finishes without getting dust particles in the finish. It even has a built in pressure guage...( ribbons at the back) LOL. When the ribbons drop down to about a 25 degree angle its time to clean and/or replace filters.
For a front, rear, and inside view, check out my homepage under "workshop". I'm sure you'll want to see the pressure guage..Ha !!.
Sometimes a person can spend a lot of money on a pretty paint job and a brand name. Darn.. They don't even have a pressure guage. !! Am I cheap ??? Ya .. maybe.. I prefer to call it frugal.
W.Y.
http://www.geocities.com/bill710us
"Designer Firewood Specialist"

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1558240&a=11827497&p=52510624&Sequence=0

[Bryan Cowing, Innerkip On]

This is the el-cheapo floor model. The old furnace fan and motor from my old oil furnace. Shares space in a parts cabinet that fits under the sliding table of my TS. To make it quiet I dropped to the next pulley size on the motor. The rig doubles when spraying small projects, capturing any overspray. The 4 inch filter are toss outs from work.

http://wsphotofews.excite.com/014/TX/Fn/8F/ka88345.jpg

[Hendrik Varju]

I understand what you're saying Chester, but you have to consider the use of the shop as well. I build one-of-a-kind fine furniture where it is quite typical for me to spend between 100 and 500 hours on a piece of furniture. I'm not sending thousands of board feet of lumber through my planer. Think about how much time is used up just marking out, planning joinery, finishing, etc. So I'm obviously not a typical professional shop. I agree that the usual cabinet shop would definitely need a collection system. But for my needs, and the needs of many people with small home shops, using a mask for 5 minutes after using each dust-producing machine really isn't a big deal. And in my opinion, the ambient air cleaner is protecting my lungs (I have asthma, but do fine with this unit). As for the large shavings, I'm quite happy to spend fifteen minutes scooping it into a bag once a week or so.

So I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that a full collection system is not practical or within the budget of many home-shop woodworkers.

Hendrik

http://www.passionforwood.com

[Hendrik Varju]

I admire your handywork. Afterall, most do-it-yourselfers like to build just about anything for themselves rather than buy it. I do have one warning for you though. You might want to look into the explosion risk given that you're not using an explosion proof fan. This is especially risky if you're using it while spraying lacquer. I know that the risk is small, but it is real. Have you done any research into this issue?

Hendrik

[Tony in Brampton]

Yes, I have a 1 hp dust collector that I move around and attach to my tablesaw, jointer, planer and I use the shop-vac on the router table. I pretty much have the collection at the machines under control. I even bought 5 micron dust collector bags from Penn State a couple months ago and must say they are worth the money. When I put those bags on, I immediately noticed a huge difference. I am more concerned now with keeping the air clean for me (and everyone else in the house).
Tony

[Bob Turner Salmon Arm B.C]

Tony I can only comment on the Delta. It does an excellent job of cleaning the air in my 18x26' shop. However it is only one speed and tad on the noisey side. If you are going to hang it from the ceiling, location is important. It is better off along one wall than in the center of the room. Doing this will give you more air movement which adds up to better air cleaning.

What ever one you decide on have them run it and you can judge for yourself on the noise level.

Bob

[William Young]

Hendrick; I appreciate your concern but if you think this is dangerous, you're going to flip out when you here about my spray booth. It is a box fan with the same type "brushless" motor as my air cleaner. I have sprayed laquer thinner and laquer and urethanes through it for 20 years.No open spark for ignition in a brushless motor. My small portable factory made CSA approved air cleaner that I have running up against my scrollsaw table is the same type of open brushless motor. My band saw, tablesaw sanders etc. etc. motors are all of the open variety. Imagine what this equipment would cost if the manufacturers started putting sealed dust proof motors on them.
A case in point; A range hood with a fan sitting three feet above a gas range has a brushless CSA approved motor . I've never heard of one exploding. Your bathroom exhust fan has the same type with a gas furnace in the house.
My suggestions on anything I make for my own use are meant to be helpfull to others but it is up to the individual that wants to use my idea whether or not they will go ahead with it.If anyone is the least bit uncomfortable about copying my air cleaner then just take it as another option and don't build it. I submit suggestions but never tell anyone they HAVE to follow them.
I have a large fire extinguisher in both my home and shop. Hope I never have to use one but I if I ever do, I don't think it will because of one of my motors.
W.Y.

[Hendrik Varju]

Hi William. I hope I didn't offend you with my concern. I was just raising it because of articles I've read about explosions caused by spraying flammable materials around ordinary fans with an open spark. I wasn't saying that you shouldn't have posted your idea by any means. And you may in fact be quite right about the brushless motor. I really have no idea, as that is not my area of expertise. If there is, in fact, no spark, then you are quite right that there is no risk. I just don't know how these fans work.

It sounds like it is working quite well for you. I don't worry about that issue because I do all of my finishing using hand methods, not spraying.

Take care.

http://www.passionforwood.com

[Vlad]

Tony,

If you want to save money you should make your own. I bought a furnace blower like new at a flea market for $40 and some good filters for $25 (had some 1/2" ply). This unit is quieter, and doesn't break down as much as the Delta I had. It aint pretty but it works well. You could save $300 and spend that money on other tools.

Just my 2 cents.

Vlad

[William Young]

Hendrick; No offense whatsoever. I could be totally wrong. I have been lots of times..Ha.. I just pass along my personal experiences in hope that it will help someone and I appreciate any constructive critcism. Forums can be a great learning experience.
W.Y.

[Bryan Cowing, Innerkip On]

I think I'll only use it for dust control from now on. Innerkip doesn't really need a fire sale of woodworking tools! Thanks for the heads up on safety!

[Bob Turner Salmon Arm B.C]

Hi Vlad. Your Delta cleaner was breaking down? What's to break? Explanation would be appreciated as I have owned a Delta for 3yrs and no problems.

Bob

[Gerry Wittenberg, Agassiz]

Hi Tony -- I made one out of MDF, a squirrel cage blower, and 5 furnace filters. I use it for a downdraft sanding table, an outfeed table for the TS, a small assembly table (with a piece of MDF on top), and, oh yeah, an air cleaner. It works fine for all purposes.

Gerry

[Shane in Niagara]

I also make one using a furnace blower. But for the filters i used the ones the HD sells for there units. because i made it, i just extended the box to make the filters fit.
Shane

[Ken in Regina]

Gerry,

What are the dimensions of the box you built?
What size filters are you using?
Are the filters on the top?
Pegboard above the filters, sucking air through the pegboard, then the filters?

Always questions... :)

...ken...

[Gerry Wittenberg, Agassiz]

Hi Ken - I made mine from plans in an old American Woodworker mag, the one with Andy Rooney on the cover with his wood stash. It is 30"h x 27"l x 22"w. The wheels and the grid on top add 5" to the height. The top grid is 1/8" x 1" maple strips half lapped to form 1" holes all captured by a 1/2" x 1 1/2" maple frame. The furnace filters are 20" x 25" standard f/g filters. I had intended to use the 3m filtrete filters but couldn't find them at HD when I wanted them so just never got around to changing them. I just take them outside and shake 'em out when they get full. It is just the top two or maybe three that get any dust, the rest are usually pretty clean. I used an old squirrel cage blower that I got from a heating guy I know for a case of beer. The blower sucks the air down through the grid and filters and exhausts out through the front (the 22" side). I made the box out of 3/4" MDF using the dado, glue, and drywall screw method. Hope all this helps.

Gerry

[Chester Van Ness]

Hey guys: Just remember that non of the units on the market have explosion proof motors or aluminium fans and should NOT be used when spraying oil based finishes. Even the particles of finish moving through the fan can create static electricity and you can get a spark when this discharges.So basically the motor isn't the only thing to worry about as an ignition source. My two cents: Chester

[Bob Turner Salmon Arm B.C]

why haven't there been any recalls on the air cleaners. They must have a million or two marketed air cleaners out to the consumer and I have never heard of one explosion yet, nor has anybody raised it as an issue before this.

This to me Chester is like the dust collection explosion issue, there has never been any consenus on that.

Bob

Bob

[Ken in Regina]

[Chester Van Ness]

Bob and Others I am just relating the industry standards for finishing booth fans. The air cleaners are marketed as secondary dust capturers not as fume cleaners for finishing rooms.If your unsure about the unit you have contact the manufacturer for clarification.I hope this helps clear up any misconseptions. Chester