Design Help

[OttawaP]

I drew this up today and was wondering what you guys think about the proportions. It's either going to be a sofa table or a dining room side table (ask my wife). I know there is actual scales you are supposed to follow and if you can tell me what those are it would help. But I just did this by eye to what I think looks right. I'm leaning to maybe the drawer face should be a bit narrower to bring the arch up a bit higher and have the sides match in height.

All critques appreciated - don't be shy.

Paul

[Mack C. in Brooklin ON]

[quote]I drew this up today and was wondering what you guys think about the proportions.Hi Paul; first off...it more than fills my screen, so it's difficult to tell I know there is actual scales you are supposed to followYou're probably thinking of the Golden Mean, proportionally 1:1.6181. A couple of other things after going back and looking....curve the side rails as well. How about 3 drawers a little narrower. Make shelf wider. Overall I quite like the design.

[OttawaP]

[quote=PTG / Ottawa;114224]Hi curve the side rails as well. How about 3 drawers a little narrower. Make shelf wider. Overall I quite like the design.

They do need to be little narrower don't they. I'm trying to just push the design a little bit to the contemporary side without loosing the traditional "look". I'll try with 3 drawers.....iwonder if the middle one should be wider??

Paul

[Blaine in Kitchener]

Paul

I quite like the Mission/Arts & Crafts style you have going there. I agree with Mac that you should arch the side rails as well. I think two drawers is fine for the style of the piece and I can't quite tell if the legs are curved as well. I can see the taper on the feet (below the stetcher) and I think that's more in keeping with the style. I don't think the legs should be curved.

Blaine

[Paul in Ottawa]

I'm not sure that the drawers need to be narrower; I'd have to see a drawing to compare them.

What catches my eye is that the bottom rail is wider than the top one. I think it would look better if the top rail was the same width as the bottom one at its narrowest point (top of the arc).

The narrow shelf on the bottom looks fine. It's the same width as the verticals on the sides.

[John Bartley]

First of all, I think it looks great. If this is your preliminary sketch, then you're many steps ahead of where I'd be right now.

As far as ideas for the table itself, I only have three thoughts :
If it's a dining room side table, then a deeper drawer may come in handy and those look quite nice as they are
If it's a sofa table, then the appearance may matter more than functionality and yes, I would also prefer it with slightly shallower (not narrower) drawers
In either case, I would get rid of the shelf. Just a personal opinion, but I thinks it's going to be used for nothing more than collecting dustcheers eh?

[OttawaP]

Paul

I quite like the Mission/Arts & Crafts style you have going there. I agree with Mac that you should arch the side rails as well. I think two drawers is fine for the style of the piece and I can't quite tell if the legs are curved as well. I can see the taper on the feet (below the stetcher) and I think that's more in keeping with the style. I don't think the legs should be curved.

Blaine

Mack,Blaine

I assume you guys are talking about curving the bottom side rails. yes the one side of the legs are curved 1/2" and they still have the traditional taper at the bottom 2 sides.

[OttawaP]

First of all, I think it looks great. If this is your preliminary sketch, then you're many steps ahead of where I'd be right now.

As far as ideas for the table itself, I only have three thoughts :

If it's a dining room side table, then a deeper drawer may come in handy and those look quite nice as they are
If it's a sofa table, then the appearance may matter more than functionality and yes, I would also prefer it with slightly shallower (not narrower) drawers
In either case, I would get rid of the shelf. Just a personal opinion, but I thinks it's going to be used for nothing more than collecting dustcheers eh?

Thanks for the kind remarks.....I'm a professional draftsman, general contractor so it's probably a little easier for me to draw it close the 1st time. I also thought about turning the shelf vertical with an arch into straight rails at the sides.

Paul

[J.P. Rap]

I like it.
The proportions look good to me but as others have noted, there is room for change.
Ill start with your last one. Turning the shelf vertical and arching it.
Nope, I wouldn't do that but I would consider 2 to 4 square slats instead of a shelf.
I like the size of the drawers the way they are. I agree the curve should be changed so that the smallest part of the bottom rail is equal to the top rail. This could also be done by reducing the hight of the rail but keeping the same curve. I would have to see it to know which I like better.

I also agree with curving the side rails ...or at least the top one. That is were I run into a problem. Would you match the radius of the front rail to the side rail or would you match the hight of the curve?

I like the curve on the legs. A little wider at the top would be nice too.

An observation.
In the drawring the top hangs over quite a bit on the right side but doesn't seem to hang over as much anywhere else. Is that a drawring error or is it just the way the pic shows up?
I don't care for the amount of overhang on the right side. I think it looks better on the front and left side.

couple of notes: When I built my coffee and end tables, the curve on the end rails is the same hight as the side rails which means they have a different radius. It looks ok on my table but the scale is different. I don't know how it would translate to a narrower end. Also, I ended the curve about 1" from the ends of the rail rather than continuing it for the full length. I just like that look and I think it's a bit stronger (my tables are pine).

[OttawaP]

[quote=J.P. Rap;114248]I like it.


I like the size of the drawers the way they are. I agree the curve should be changed so that the smallest part of the bottom rail is equal to the top rail. This could also be done by reducing the hight of the rail but keeping the same curve. I would have to see it to know which I like better.

I also agree with curving the side rails ...or at least the top one. That is were I run into a problem. Would you match the radius of the front rail to the side rail or would you match the hight of the curve?

I like the curve on the legs. A little wider at the top would be nice too.

An observation.
In the drawing the top hangs over quite a bit on the right side but doesn't seem to hang over as much anywhere else. Is that a drawring error or is it just the way the pic shows up?
I don't care for the amount of overhang on the right side. I think it looks better on the front and left side.

quote]

I raised the arch higher to almost the same as the top, 1" instead of 3/4"
It was just getting too spindly, this would also hide the drawer frame slide better. The sides are just what looked right in relation to the other arch.

JP - The overhangs are the same (within a 1/4") it's just the perspective of the drawing. More curve at the top of the posts and to me it started to loose it's elegant feel and looked a bit heavy.

A wider 3 drawer version as well - better balanced??

Also since this is backing onto a wall or chair, would it be better to reduce the overhang at the back??

Paul

[Mack C. in Brooklin ON]

Hi Paul; But shouldn't the side rails have the same arc in them as the front rail under the drawers? The radius wouldn't be the same, but the height of the arc would be.

[Gary in Waterdown]

I like it, too, but you wanted opinions, so here goes, from the top.

It wouldn't be terrible to reduce the overhang just slightly. The back edge should definitely be shortened, about the width of the chamfer, or whatever works with the thickness of the baseboards in the room, if you want the top to touch the wall and the legs no to.

Two drawers are better than three. I don't think a silverware chest will fit in the smaller drawers of the three-drawer version. I think the drawers should be framed in the center and on the ends, so a stile matching the center should go against the legs. None needed for the sides.

I like the curve of the original better than the edit. You might want to bring the drawers down to even up the rail heights. Just a bit, though. The rails on the end should either be curved to match the front, with the shelf rails straight, or vice versa (like you have it). Just don't curve both side rails.

The lower shelf needs to be a tad thicker, like 7/8" instead of 3/4". Or gone. I think the rails idea for a shelf would just be too many rails.

Well, that's my take on it. We have one of these in our house. The drawers are shallower and virtually useless. You're off to a good start, whether you ultimately use any of our ideas or not.

[OttawaP]

I like it, too, but you wanted opinions, so here goes, from the top.

It wouldn't be terrible to reduce the overhang just slightly. The back edge should definitely be shortened, about the width of the chamfer, or whatever works with the thickness of the baseboards in the room, if you want the top to touch the wall and the legs no to.

Two drawers are better than three. I don't think a silverware chest will fit in the smaller drawers of the three-drawer version. I think the drawers should be framed in the center and on the ends, so a stile matching the center should go against the legs. None needed for the sides.

I like the curve of the original better than the edit. You might want to bring the drawers down to even up the rail heights. Just a bit, though. The rails on the end should either be curved to match the front, with the shelf rails straight, or vice versa (like you have it). Just don't curve both side rails.

The lower shelf needs to be a tad thicker, like 7/8" instead of 3/4". Or gone. I think the rails idea for a shelf would just be too many rails.

Well, that's my take on it. We have one of these in our house. The drawers are shallower and virtually useless. You're off to a good start, whether you ultimately use any of our ideas or not.

Atta boy, pour it on.

I like the idea of framing against the drawer side as well. The drawers are really mostly for misc items like candles or napkins, we don't own any major amount of fancy silverware so I'm more concerned about proportions more than anything. I'm not settled on the curve yet. Possibly somewhere between the original and the revised. The bottom shelf i did not take the time to measure just guessed at it but I'll make it a real 7/8" to see what it looks like. Thanks.

Paul

[cbearw]

Intriguing design: A mission/contemporary look as you say. Overall I like it very much. I ran this by my wife. She feels if it is to be a side board then the drawers might not be quite so high. Two or three drawers it probably doesn't matter but I would go for two for functional reasons. I like the curved legs. Not sure about curving the side rails. Would make for more work for sure. This has some of the features of a mission glass topped coffee table I made not to long ago from some plans. Same bevel on the top which I think looks very nice. Also lots of smaller slates were used in the coffee table as opposed to fewer wider slates. This is similer to your design too. I think in keeping with the mission aspect of it you may need the lower shelf. I would make it a little wider as Mack suggested. If you do away with the shelf you may have to do away with the side slats too which would really alter your design alot. I wouldn't go that thin in your curved front rail as you have in your last drawing. In summary I really like it. Would't change a whole lot. Can't wait to see it completed now:) ...................Tom

[OttawaP]

cbearw

Thanks for the comments. The thin spindles are "borrowed" from that plan and other elements from other plans I've collected over the years. Over all it's a reasonably unique but still very familiar design. Let's face there are few true geniuses out there coming up with pure new wood art froms, the rest us beg, steal and borrow from others for inspiration.:cool: I want to nail this design down because it is the basis for a future coffee and end table.

Paul

[Pete in Milton]

Don't make the drawers so small that they are not usefull. The design is very eye appealing stick with 2 drawers. When you've got her tweaked the way You /(YOUR WIFE) wants it please repost the final design.
Thanks for sharing!

[J.P. Rap]

I did a google image search for sofa table and found a lot of similar designs. To be honest, I like yours better than any of the ones I looked at.
Here's what I found...
There were a number of examples that have a frame around the doors as well as not. Both look good. Most of the mission style tables have the same small bottom shelf. Very few (less than 10%)have a curve on the end styles, top or bottom. A few had just a rear stretcher with no shelf. I didn't like that look at all. What I was looking for was an exsample of one with two square slats in place of the shelf. I have seen it before and I like the look but I could find none in my search. At least none in mission style.

Here are a few pics I picked out.

No curves on the sides of this one and a small shelf.

http://www.wellingtoninteriors.com/mission%20sofa%20table%20lg.jpg

Curves on the bottom and a small shelf

http://www.mennonitefurniture.com/Mission%20Sofa%20Table.jpg

This one has no curves.

http://www.craftsmanhome.com/i/furniture/hile/HS0450.jpg

The top one seems to have the least overhang and the bottom one the most. I tend to like the lesser overhang.

All in all, I like your mix of designs better.

FWIW

[cbearw]

Paul: It may be worth playing around with the taper on the bottom of the legs a bit. I know thats the mission style with the short taper but I was wondering how it would look if you carried the main sweep of the legs through to the bottom of the leg somehow. Just a thought. It may not work but I do like the curved leg in the upper part. Almost Krenov like. I guess thats why your design is really attractive. It seems to marry Krenov and Mission styles. Way cool! Not sure exactly how to taper the bottom but you might just try to gently reduce the thickness with an extension of the main curve. On the other hand it looks good the way it is! Maybe worth playing with though. It might give the leg bottoms a more delicate look if thats the look your after.I wanted to try that with some other mission projects but didn't want to deviate to much from the plan and wind up with a disaster. Those CAD programs must be great for that sort of experimentation before commiting oneself................Tom

[Norm in Sask.]

Paul, when I viewed your original design I thought that some thing wasn't quite right but after reading all the suggestions, seeing the alterations and alternatives I keep returning to your original post, and I honestly have to admit that I like your original design the best of all.

If you build it, they will come.

Norm

[OttawaP]

JP - Thanks for the pictures, of the three I prefer the last one. It sems a little less heavy (for lack of a better word). I don't remember where but I do remeber seeing one with slats as well. I'll give it a go also it's a quick change.

cbearw - I was sort of trying to acheive the look of a flared bottom without a flared bottom, I thought the tapered ends together with the curve would be enough.

Norm - thanks for the encouragement. The initial design was never meant to be a final product but close enough for discussion. It's funny when I design homes, additions, renovations etc i rarely go back. I usually hit it 9 out of 10 times right away. I find I'll do a full circle and end up where I started if I over think and rework and work it. Woodworking is different though, my confidence level is not as high, probably more to do with experience than anything else.

Paul

[Paul in Ottawa]

I like both the 2 and 3 drawer versions. You may first have to decide what the the drawers are likely to be used for.

If this is in the dining room, and depending on what other storage you have there, I think the 2 drawer version may be better to hold things like tablecloths and place mats. We have small drawers now and fitting large items in small drawers (even it they can be scrunched) is a bit of a sore point with me.

If it's to be a sofa table, then you may be more likely to use the drawers for smaller items and the 3 drawer version would work.

FWIW
Paul

[Brian from Arborg MB]

I like it just the way it is although a number of the other fellows have had some good suggestions. I like it with 2 drawers best. Good Luck! I'm waiting to see it completed.