Need advise on Fireplace and mantle

[Chris in Pickering]

3 years of home renovations on my 1950 bungalo are coming to a close.
The last thing to address is our 1950's red brick fireplace and plywood mantle.
I am thinking of facing the fireplace with a combination of tile or natural stone, along with a wood (maple or painted white) mantle and surround.

I also have to address the air leakage problem by adding some type of glass doors or something??

Any tips, suggestions , products would be appreciated.

I guess the easist solution would be to invite Bryan from Woodstock over for a week!!!!

[kcjones]

Hi pickeringwoodworker
I'd check with your local fireplace shop to get the glass doors, or maybe an insert. Black marble or granite tiles over the existing brick as well as the hearth would be fairly easy. A bit of new crown molding under the mantle, a paint job and your good to go.

[Mack C. in Brooklin ON]

Hi pickeringwoodworker
I'd check with your local fireplace shop to get the glass doors, or maybe an insert. Black marble or granite tiles over the existing brick as well as the hearth would be fairly easy. A bit of new crown molding under the mantle, a paint job [quote] and your good to go.Then put it up for sale, and move to Brooklin! Your life's dream.

[Jim Shaver, Oakville Ont.]

Then put it up for sale, and move to Brooklin! Your life's dream.[/QUOTE]

I wonder what Mack has in store for you Chris??

Renovations ending??? Nah, they are endless.....

I bought a set of really nice glass doors with a cinder screen for my fireplace about 10 years ago....they add a lot to the look of the fire place, they really are not air tight at all, but they do control the flow of air...the damper does more to make the box air tight.

I have made a fire place surround, but Bryan Cowing is a master at this, hope he pipes in here..

[scott in rochester]

Your fireplace looks remarkably like the one we renovated in our master BR, except your mantel is nicer! Our was a crudely sawn plank...not rough sawn, just poorly sawn.

I ended up tiling the brick and the hearth, rebuilding and expanding the mantel to include flanking bookcases. Ours was done from salvaged waterbed pine to match the rest of the room's molding, but you can use pretty much anything. It was my first and only fireplace work so far...it's not an overly daunting task. Good luck!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/FP1.jpg

[Mack C. in Brooklin ON]

I have got to get to Rochester.:lol:

[Rick Thom]

Chris, any thoughts of going gas? My guess is that would be the preferred route if you are thinking resale. Seems not too many urbanites are interested in wood burning for very long.

[Chris in Pickering]

Chris, any thoughts of going gas? My guess is that would be the preferred route if you are thinking resale. Seems not too many urbanites are interested in wood burning for very long.

Thought about gas, yes. Builders quality bargain basement unit $2000 installed. You could stick your tounge to the glass and barely feel heat.
Nice ones are $3000 and up.

[Bill Simpson]

"I guess the easist solution would be to invite Bryan from Woodstock over for a week!!!!"

That would be the best bet.... However I do so love a fireplace but your's desires a LOT to be effecient. When I built mine in the 70s I added a vent to secure combustible are from outside, It really makes a difference when you have a Heatilater and glass doors. My son has a similar to yours and it has a gass insert that makes for a cozy room, also patterned after Brians good jobs I built a Mantle for an electric unit. My wife's uncle had the exact fioreplace you have and he inserted the electric unit and kept it in the same style as you have, Easy fix and it looks so much better that you don't notice the room is dated.

Some of the DYI shows are showing Folks Thinsetting Marble Tile as a surround right over the top of the Brick, and after you coax Brian over, together you can make a Grand Mantle. Maybe remove a course or two/three off of the top. (seems to be a bit out of proportion) Addition of the glass doors if you are going to burn and if you can figure out how, get a vent to feed the flames.

Waiting to see your results.

[Rick Thom]

Thought about gas, yes. Builders quality bargain basement unit $2000 installed. You could stick your tounge to the glass and barely feel heat.
Nice ones are $3000 and up.
We had one about the same as yours in the our new 1953- built house. Don't think theses fireplaces were really designed to produce efficient heat, more for effect. Small fire box but lots of mass. Thses were amoung the first generation of homes with oil fired central heating.. quite a luxury compared to coal octupus that preceeded them.

[Chris in Pickering]

We had one about the same as yours in the our new 1953- built house. Don't think theses fireplaces were really designed to produce efficient heat, more for effect. Small fire box but lots of mass. Thses were amoung the first generation of homes with oil fired central heating.. quite a luxury compared to coal octupus that preceeded them.


You are right. Small firebox and lots of block.
A gas fireplace was really my first choice. I know you have only seen the house from the outside, but no expense has been spared in the interior renovation. The outside is planned for this summer. Windows, siding to match the shop, insulation, soffit, facia and so on. I was going to cheap out on the fireplace because some people really enjoy a woodburning FP even know it sucks more warm air out of the house than it will ever produce.

[Bryan @ Woodstock]

Before you begin to change your fireplaces look, just remember that there are clearances for protrusions to the sides and top that must be met. Looking at Scotts mantle, I would say it's too low to the opening of the firebox and would be in danger of igniting. It may not pass clearances to the side also, but I'm just using info for a gas unit, not a wood burner! When I did the builders mantles, I had to check the gas fireplace manufactures manual for recomended clearances to the side and to the top. On top, the farther out the top was , you had to increase the height of the mantles top to keep it away from the heat. I have no idea what clearances for a wood burner would be, but when you look at the way your fireplace was constructed flat, you realize why it was done this way. I also have to address the air leakage problem by adding some type of glass doors or something?? That black smoke on the bricks, may mean you need to open a window to let fresh air in. You may be starving the fireplace of air if your house is tight. Another answer maybe the chimney is cold when you start it up and won't draw. I have seen my brother use wads of newspaper 1st to get the flue warmed up.

[Jason in Sudbury]

Why not go electric? All you need is a standard (110) outlet. That's what I did.
I had a moneyburning, er, I mean woodburning fireplace. When we decided to renovate, I spoke to my father, who is a licensed gas contractor, and he said, "go electric". Every dollar you put into it, stays in the home. Although it is only for space heating, it does the trick. You can use it in the summer without the heat as well.

Here is what it looked like "before"

http://www.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/vbpgimage.php?do=thumb&p=1162&d=1173203213 (http://www.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=218)

and this is what it looks like "after"

http://www.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/vbpgimage.php?do=full&p=1161&d=1173202543
The mantle was made out of maple ply and pine, with all but the crown moulding machined by myself. Tiles come from HD and the colour scheme is courtesy my wife.

[Chris in Pickering]

I decided to put a Gas FP in.

Because of the very small opening size of my fireplace, I spent the last 2 nights ripping off the mantle, brick surround, steel flue and interior fire brick. Now I have a big a$$ opening and can choose any type of direct vent FP I like.

I have a design for a mantle and will build it of natural maple, or mdf and paint a pure white.

Will post pics in a couple of weeks.

[yogibear]

I went through the same process two years ago. Here are my before and after shots. If you like AC then you may see an idea or two the mirror is from wood magazine and modified for this purpose. Wood is quarter cut oak and the stonework is slate tile. I attached cementboard to the brick using thin set mortar and screws and then attached the tile to the cement board using thin set again. The slate had to be sealed prior to installing so excess mortor and grout could be cleaned off. As you can see it was christmas time. I started the project on Dec 1 and ended on Dec 22. My wife and duaghters were decorating and I was cleaning up. Just a few tense moments there.

Any how good luck.

Yogi

[Bryan @ Woodstock]

Good looking mantle. I like the mirror!

[Chris in Pickering]

I went through the same process two years ago. Here are my before and after shots. If you like AC then you may see an idea or two the mirror is from wood magazine and modified for this purpose. Wood is quarter cut oak and the stonework is slate tile. I attached cementboard to the brick using thin set mortar and screws and then attached the tile to the cement board using thin set again. The slate had to be sealed prior to installing so excess mortor and grout could be cleaned off. As you can see it was christmas time. I started the project on Dec 1 and ended on Dec 22. My wife and duaghters were decorating and I was cleaning up. Just a few tense moments there.

Any how good luck.

Yogi


Looks amazing. My mantle plan is similar less the mirror and whatever that box is called that sticks out on the floor. Hearth?
I plan on using granite tile that I have already used in another area of the house.
Can you give me any advise as to the FP.... Heater rated? Blower? Brand? BtU's?

The room is 12 x 15 with a 10 x 10 "L" shape to it, (about 300sq')

Chris

[yogibear]

Sorry I cant give any advice on a gas unit. My fireplace is still a woodburner. I have been considering a gas replacement but it may mean burying the line around the perimeter of the house since the meter is on the oposite side and the basement ceiling is finished. My wife will not be happy if her gardens are disturbed. Nothing like a catch 22! I found when I was looking around that most places that sell the inserts will look at your plan and suggest what you need, You will require the room dimensions, the hearth opening dimensions, details about your gas line in relation to the fireplace and access to route it. You will probably want to go with a direct vent so that the unit uses out door air for combustion rather than heated indoor air. That will also save the cost of doing modifications on your flue for gas burning. If it is a deicated flue for the fireplace you will be able to seal it off to prevent any cold downdraft.

Hope this has been useful

Yogi

[Chris in Pickering]

Diect vent for sure! I have already decided that part.
I am lucky as the furnace room is directly below, so I will only need 4 or 5' of gas line!!!!

[Flame]

Chris here are a couple of links you might find helpful

http://www.garymkatz.com/TrimTechniques/BeauxArtsMantel-2006.htm

&

http://www.garymkatz.com/TrimTechniques/CraftsmanMantel-2005.htm

This guys whole site is great.

Eamon

[Chris in Pickering]

Here are a couple of pics of after I ripped down the 3000lbs of Brick and morter, and the gas FP, just resting in place. I have a gas guy coming on friday to install the gas line, vent and electrical connections.
I will put a row of 12" x 12" Granite tile called "sunset gold" (used in my maim floor shower surround) then a pure white mantle made of MDF and poplar.

Chris

[Chris in Pickering]

This is a on the fly project, so any ideas or reccomendations would be appreciated

[Bryan @ Woodstock]

I would like to see the same tile that you use on the floor to frame the firebox, cut at 5" or 6" wide. Just butt them, no grout. That would be a good start. Any sketches of the wood part?

[Chris in Pickering]

I would like to see the same tile that you use on the floor to frame the firebox, cut at 5" or 6" wide. Just butt them, no grout. That would be a good start. Any sketches of the wood part?


Hey Bryan!

I have carpet sitting in a warehouse waiting to be installed, thus the reason for all these quick decisions. The plywood you see on the floor was just to fill the void level with the hardwood.

Here is a pic of what I have in mind............

[Bryan @ Woodstock]

Nice! What type of white finish and application method do you plan to use? I would still have tile on the floor for the mantle to sit on! I don't think carpet would look good up to the bottom of the mantle.

[Chris in Pickering]

Nice! What type of white finish and application method do you plan to use? I would still have tile on the floor for the mantle to sit on! I don't think carpet would look good up to the bottom of the mantle.

I plan on using a pure white, semi gloss sprayed on lacquer.
I see what you mean about the carpet up to the mantle. I raised the gas FP off the floor because I like the look of a little bit of tile (4") below.
My plan was to do all the tiling, then have the carpet installed, then install the mantle on top of the carpet. I am not convinced that I like the way carpet looks butted against tile, the elevation has to be perfact to look right. If the tile is sitting lower, it looks like crap.

It is a good idea though, and I will consider it.

Thanks,

Chris

[Bryan @ Woodstock]

If you put down a layer of thinset on the plywood 1st. you can build up the height of the area the tile will lay on, then the tile should be even with the carpet.
This painted mantle ( poplar ) the 3/8" thick tile is even with the 3/4" oak flooring. A gold aluminum trim wraps around the marble tile, laid tight together, no grout. The 12"x12" marble floor tile was cut in half for the firebox, butt joint, no grout used. The carved maple crest is from LV. Lacquer primer and satin lacquer. The white wood crown was purchased at HD. Once the tile was laid, I then take measurements for the mantle. A 3/8" deep x 1/2" rabbett in the back of the mantle opening covers the edge of the tile around the firebox. To hold the mantle tight to the wall with any fasteners showing, 2 wood screws are left protuding from the back of the mantle top, the mantle then pushed tight to the wall, leaving a mark in the dryall to postion metal hangers that are recessed in the drywall. Construction adhesive holds the bottom to the wall on this mantle.
3308
3309

[Chris in Pickering]

Well, Here's where Im at.....

Got the gas hooked up and running yesterday and I installed my granite tile around the perimeter. On the recomandation of Bryan, I decided to put a row of tile on the floor, but swmbo decided she wanted the new carpet to run right to the wall.
I will have to build a mantle that not only looks nice, but covers the existing void left after the removal of the old masonry.
I still have not decided to have a simple on/off switch, or thermostat.

Chris

[Rick Thom]

Chris, looking good. I think you made the right decision on going gas vs wood. It does pose another problem though. What are you going to do with all your wood scraps since you've removed the wood burning fireplace???

[Chris in Pickering]

Chris, looking good. I think you made the right decision on going gas vs wood. It does pose another problem though. What are you going to do with all your wood scraps since you've removed the wood burning fireplace???

Is that a hint Rick???
Now that I have taken up pen making there wont be a whole lot of scraps in the future!

I am happy that I went gas, nice to be able to hit a switch and have instant fire!

[Rick Thom]

Is that a hint Rick???


Nope. It isn't as easy to dispose of the odds and ends as it has been in past. I may have to reactivate my fire pit but the F.D. sure isn't keen about open fires. I sold my nice Vermont Castings stove for a pitence... maybe not such a smart move in retrospect.