Deck ledger on brick wall; beam sizes and spans

[kapucin]

Hi, all
I'm planning to build a deck: 10'x21', 8' above ground connected to my house's brick wall. I looked into some information (HD book "decks 1-2-3", internet), but still have questions. Hopefully someone in this forum may be able to help me out.

1) Connecting a ledger to a brick wall (siding). My house was build in 2003, so I don't expect a great holding strength from the brick, which is not solid with voids. The HD's book states that the fasteners should penatrate the webs in the brick, better check with the local code. Another source indicates that the fasteners should go through the house band joist. The problem is that my basement is finished and I can't use the second option without cutting the drywall from the inside. Is there any other option? Will the brick hold the deck by itself or I must connect the faster all the way through the joist? (I don't seem to find the info in the building code).

2) Beam spans and their size. According to the book, with spacing between ledger and beam equal 120", a 3x8 beam must span no more than 7' (between posts). Does it mean I could for example use two 2x8 beams instead of one 3x8? Provided my deck is 21', I'll have to install four 4x4 posts (is it really enogh or I should use 6x6 posts instead).
Could I use a different configuration, such as with 3 posts and differently sized beams?

I would really appreciate your good advice.

[cranbrook2]

If your going into brick use 5" bolts x 1/2" or 5/8" lag bolts with expanding shields .
I also squirt caulking in the holes first to get a good seal.

Since you are going to be 8 ft off the ground i would go with a 3 ply 2x8 beam and 4 - 6x6 post. Keep the two end post in 1 ft from the ends of the beam.
It will also shorten the span for the two center post.
The floor joist should be 16" on center and if your deck is 10 ft out keep the beam back 1 ft so your span will only be 9 ft from the wall.

[cranbrook2]

I forgot to mention since the deck is 8 ft in the air you will also need sway braces cut on a 45 degree angle from the post to the beam on each post .
This will keep the deck from swaying back in forth.

[J.P. Rap]

You have so many options you really have to decide what it is you want and go from there. If you only want 3 posts under the deck you can do it but you have to use the right sized posts and larger beams. Your building department will be able to furnish you with the local building code that you are required to meet for such a project. My best advice is to sketch out exactly what you want to do and take it to the building department and find out what they require as a "minimum", then beef it up a bit.
As for fastening to the brick, There are fasteners made specifically for fastening to brick. Personally, I wouldn't trust any of them by themselves. I would add a couple of 4X4s under it just to be on the safe side (at a minimum). Again, your building department will help you there.

I have read that you need to leave a gap between the house and the deck so that water can run off or the board fastened to the house will stay wet and rot out in short order. I don't know that from experience, it's just something I read.
HTH

[kapucin]

Thanks for the replies, guys. Pardon my English, it's not my first language.

John, I didn't understand "3 ply 2x8"; do you mean 3 beams (2x8) fastened together (as in plywood)? For swaying, will a couple of 2x4 underneath the deck do the job, i.e. diagonally from one corner to the other?

J.P., great advice, I'll certainly visit them.

As to fastening to the brick, here is a link to the picture and a short description of the problem.

http://www.decks.com/articles.aspx?articleid=27

It's kind of scary if that wall can fall on your head with a wind blow, not mentioning self-esteem after the project :)

[Mitch in Cambridge]

Hi, all
I'm planning to build a deck: 10'x21', 8' above ground connected to my house's brick wall. I looked into some information (HD book "decks 1-2-3", internet), but still have questions. Hopefully someone in this forum may be able to help me out.

1) Connecting a ledger to a brick wall (siding). My house was build in 2003, so I don't expect a great holding strength from the brick, which is not solid with voids. The HD's book states that the fasteners should penatrate the webs in the brick, better check with the local code. Another source indicates that the fasteners should go through the house band joist. The problem is that my basement is finished and I can't use the second option without cutting the drywall from the inside. Is there any other option? Will the brick hold the deck by itself or I must connect the faster all the way through the joist? (I don't seem to find the info in the building code).

2) Beam spans and their size. According to the book, with spacing between ledger and beam equal 120", a 3x8 beam must span no more than 7' (between posts). Does it mean I could for example use two 2x8 beams instead of one 3x8? Provided my deck is 21', I'll have to install four 4x4 posts (is it really enogh or I should use 6x6 posts instead).
Could I use a different configuration, such as with 3 posts and differently sized beams?

I would really appreciate your good advice.
Hi,
I was contracted by a very large home builder in the GTA for years and bolts need to go thru the header/ribbon board what ever you want to label it. Brick veneer has no structural strength. If there is distrubed unpacked areas around your foundation...I've seen a deck that dropped about 3"...That kinda situation could pull the brick veneer siding of your house.Just be safe not sorry...A little plaster is cheaper than a brick layer.
I don't believe 4x4 are recommended for any suspended vertical support now. Besides the 4x4 look like cra^.Also at that height and sqft your going to need a building permit. Try three posts 18" overhang to the front and sides that leaves 8 1/4' between post with 3x10 beam(laminate a 9 1/2" 2x6(45 the bottom end) to both front faces of the posts).Then 2x8 joist on 12" .
Nothing worse than a bouncy deck floor.
Take your sketch to the planning department and have them check it out.

Mitch

[kapucin]

Great help, Mitch!
I was thinking about 6" overhang; the side beams 90", the center 80".
I didn't get the laminate part. Did you mean to both front faces of the beams?
Attached is a quick sketch of what I have in mind.

[Kiely]

Can you clarify the type of brick? Is it cinderblock brick used for a foundation or as decorative? If it's cinderblock then fastening to it is not a problem. If it's decorative than I'd go into the sill material inside the house.

[Lost in the Woods]

In Ajax where I live, they specifically state that fastening to the brick alone is unacceptible.

They want you to at least fasten to part of the wood frame of the house, although I can't remember specifically if lag bolting to a certain depth or in fact bolting and fastening right thru wood frame members are the requirements.

It makes sense when you think about it. The brick to our houses is simply a veneer that protects the house from the elements. It is not part of the structural support of our houses, although it may seem to be. When you see a house being built. what is the structure that is going up, the timbre frame. The brick is cladding.

Kevin....who also has a deck to build this year as well.

[Pete in Milton]

Great help, Mitch!
I was thinking about 6" overhang; the side beams 90", the center 80".
I didn't get the laminate part. Did you mean to both front faces of the beams?
Attached is a quick sketch of what I have in mind.
First go to the building department, you should be able to get a copy of the code requirements for decks and railings and steps there. (I built a deck at my cottage after we became an "organized township" and everything has to be built to code, with appropriate permits,because they don't want a deck to come crashing down and injure or kill people.)
You will likely have to lag into the second floor rim joist, but also put a header underneath.(maybe)
Build it right and build it once! If you're using the new PT lumber be aware that it requires special fasteners that will not corrode when in contact with the wood, this means all the metal joist hangers, tee's, huricane ties, and nails, this new lumber is very corrosive to standard fasteners and a galvanized nail once used with the copper asenide treated wood will only survive one or two seasons in the new stuff.

[kapucin]

Is it a deck-specific booklet/code? I was looking at Ontario building code, but got quite confused.
The brick is red with voids, painted gray. I drilled a couple of holes once, and got an impression that it's really just for the looks...
So I lean towards fastening the ledger to the wood frame. Given no choice I have to do it.

Need to look into the fasteners. I thought the whole purpose for galvanized nails is to survive those conditions.
:confused:

[Pete in Milton]

Sergey,
I have Googled KW planning department and ACQ (Alkaline Copper Quaternay) treated wood. there is some very interesting reading about the fasteners and most stores that sell the wood will only sell approved fasteners, if you had any left over from a previous project (Copper arsenide treated wood) do NOT use them. The wood is treated with an alkaline solution which is 5X more corrosive.
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=ACQ+pressure+treated+lumber&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
As far as the building code most cities use the Ontario building code as minimum, some cities are more stringent in certain areas (decks) due to a number of them collapsing in the last few years, it is best to check with your cities planning department for the most up to date info, it's always changing. Here's a link:
http://www.kitchener.ca/city_hall/departments/devtech_services/building/build.html

Here is a link for bulding your deck:In Kitchener
http://www.kitchener.ca/pdf/building_deck_elevations_details.pdf

Hope that gets you started on the right footing, speaking about footings when you go to pour them the inspector will want to see the hole before the concrete is poured believe it or not! and almost every step of the way, structure next, then final inspection.
My inspector was so thorough I had left out 3 nails on a total of 28 joist hangers and he spotted them all , made me install them too. After it was all done he came and asked if he could use my deck as an example of how a deck should be built (my Dad designed it) and when my brother in law next door went to build his it was almost a rubber stamp because he knew my Dad and I were involved in the build. Quite a compliment!

[kapucin]

Thanks a lot for the information!

I should probably do more research before I asked any more questions.

Regards

[mreza]

I would never ever trust the brick/stone (especially at newly built homes) to keep such a load. They come loose by themselves!! I am pretty sure the building code in your area doesn't allow such a thing either. D