Tambours

[Larry]

I'm about to construct the tambour for the roll top desk I'm making. I'd appreciate any comments/advice any of you may have. I'm a little concerned on which glue to use to fasten the strips to the medium weight canvas backing I'll be using. Each strip is approx 50 in by 3/4 by 1/2 in thick. Articles I've read on this subject recommend everything from Elymers carpenters to contact cement. I'm confused, thanks in advance for any suggestions.....Larry

[Roman]

Larry You will likely get many opinions on this
and in the world of wood working they might all work.
I use spray grade contact cement blown threw a cup gun. Contact is extremely unforgiving but it is flexable and comes clear , you can even tint it to match your stain.
Are you using a ship lap joint on your tambours?.

[Don Kondra]

Hi Larry,

I use yellow glue applied to the tambours with a roller. Your strips should be in a jig that holds them all tightly together and square. I run a strip of masking tape down both ends so the canvas won't stick and you can run a blade along this line later when the glue is dry..... lay the canvas on the wet glue and smooth it with your hands.

After about 45 minutes remove it from the jig and check to see that no glue has seeped in between the tambours and glued their edges together...... slightly open each joint, if they are stuck it will be obvious. Leave the tambour flat overnight for the glue to fully cure.



Don Kondra- Furniture Designer/Maker (http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/donkon/)

[Russ Phelps St. Albert AB]

Larry; Use a glue with enough open time to allow you to adjust the tambour slats.The slats should fit snuggly together and you may need to move them aroumd a bit to get a good fit.I have heard others say that most any yellow or white glue is a good choice(regular carpenters glue)but I myself would NOT use any type of Contact Cement as it is to unforgiving(does not allow for ANY adjustment)Hope this helps. Russ

[Lee Brubaker, Edmonton,AB]

Hi Larry: Just in case your research did not touch on the topic, it is a good idea to preshrink the canvas before use. Don't trust any retailers claim that it is preshrunk. If your canvas is white, or not the color that you would prefer, you can preshrink & dye at the same time using dye that is available in most Super Market Grocery stores. Good Luck.

Lee

[Roman]

Don I looked at your web site and its very impressive. I see that you do a lot of tambours and from the pics you do an excellent job of it. I see that you are a professional woodworker.

I get a lot of pressure from an associate on opening a web site, but feel the money might not justify the result. Has this web site payed you back for its cost?

Also contact cement is unforgiving but its fast. I use a vacumn table to hold the tambours in place and as you said masking tape on the edgees. I also leave a couple of inches of canvass at the bottom folded over to attatch the handle at a later time. I have found that the glue yellow or white squeezes out and the cleanup takes too long.

As we said contact is unforgiving so anyone attempting tambours for the first time , dont use contact.

[Don Kondra]

Hay Roman,

I don't use contact cement because I am a one man shop, that is at least a two person job to get the canvas on, and putting the contact on the canvas is a pain. Also the contact never dries, it stays pliable and eventually will pull away from the tambours.

As far as glue squeeze out, if you joint and plane your tambours so they fit tightly, this shouldn't be a problem!!!! If you use a vacuum to hold the tambours and then apply the glue you will end up with a solid panel :)

I actually can't see how using a vacuum would work??? Unless you have warped laminae? And if they are warped you shouldn't be using them. The pressure needs to be side to side, not down? Please enlighten me....

As for the web site, as a professional woodworker I need to do a variety of things to generate work, the web site is only one of them. I have used the site as a "remote" portfolio and sold an in stock item. I have had inquires from potential clients and I have had questions from fellow woodworkers. I designed the site (such as it is) myself and had a friends son do the actual setup. Total cost so far $150 plus my time to put together the text and organize the pics. My internet provider gives me 2 mg free web site.....

I think the general public perceives a web site as a professional requirement.



Don Kondra- Furniture Designer/Maker (http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/donkon/)

[Roman]

Hi Don

Yes contact is a two man job three is even better yet.As I said earlier I use a cup/ pressure pot to spray it on , its quick.
Because I use contact the vacumn holds the pieces in place quickly , square, and I use a ship lap joint so as not to see any of the canvass.
Contact stays pliable and I have had very little in the way of problems from de lamination.
I read in a FWW mag about a joint that involves no canvass. The tambours slide into one another like a long tube into a long hole. It looked ideal. I will e mail you some of my photos. I too am a professional woodworker.
Thank you Don and by the way I do agree that for the most part your choice of adhesion is a good one.

[Larry]

Thanks one and all for your suggestions. As I am a one man operation I'll steer clear of the contact cement. I'll be using 10oz artists canvas, and Lee I appreciate your heads up re shrinkage as none of the articles I consulted ever mentioned this. Once again everyone, thanks

[J.P.Rap]

Hi Larry,
I havn't tried this, but I used to use "Weld bond" quite a bit and remember reading on the instructions for venearing to apply glue to the substrate and allow it to dry then apply rubbing alcohol to the venear and apply it to the substrate.This may wok for you . Apply the glue to the tambors and the alcohol to backing material.
It may be worth a try if you feel like experimenting a little.
J.P.

[Steve in Kemptville, ON]

Roman or Don, I have never done this but intend to soon. How much of a ship lap joint would you recommend? WOuld about 1/3 the tambour width be about right?

Thanks.

[Don Kondra]

I don't use a ship lap joint, just square tambours with the sides and fronts shaped. Even when the door is flexed you can't really see the canvas.. The only mechanical connection needed between the tambours is the canvas at the back..

The type of joint you use between tambours relates to the radius the door can curve around.....

I usually make my blanks 7/8" wide by 3/4" thick. My "track" is 1/4" wide by 1/4" deep. On the ends of the tambour blanks I make a tenon 3/16" thick and 1/4" long. This arrangement will slide around a 2" diameter corner.

It is late, I hope this makes sense..

Don

[Roman]

Hey Steve. I would listen to Don on this subject. If this is your first roll top his advice is the best Good luck

[Lee Brubaker, Edmonton,AB]

cause I seem to be putting my tambours together backwards to everyone else. I build a open ended frame with the width the exact length of the slats. I layer the bottom with wax paper. Then lay in the canvas & tack it down at the open end of the frame. Next the glue is spread on the canvas then the slats are laid in on the canvas flat side down.Next the missing open end piece of the frame is laid in next to the last slat. Bar clamps are then laid crosswise to the slats and pressure applied to squish the slats together. Several lengths of scrap are then laid across the slats and enough clamping pressure applied to press the slats down onto the canvas. After the glue has set, the tambour is removed from the frame and the glue "broken" by pressing each slat down over the edge of the workbench. Works well for me.

Lee

[Steve in Kemptville, On.]

Don: you wrote

"I usually make my blanks 7/8" wide by 3/4" thick. "

3/4" thick??? Don't they usually go around 1/4"?

Also, do you need to chamfer the edges next to the canvas of will they be left square?

Thanks.

[Don Kondra]

On a door such as a kitchen pantry/garage the tambour's are indeed 1/4" thickish and chamfered on the front edges. Leave the back face which is glued to the canvas square....

On some roll top desks the tambour's are a little thicker, say a square section of 1/2 x 1/2 or wider, then they are sometimes just rounded over.

What I try to do with my tambours is to shape the parts to create a pattern or shadow., another design detail.... not just a blank face of wood.

Think of the tambour door and the tenons on their ends as two separate elements. You can make the parts almost any size or shape within reason as long as the tenons on the end of them will slide around the corner and clear the gable or top of the cabinet.

In an extreme case I used double steel pins for the tenons...... just easier than shaping double tenons on the end of the 7/8" wide parts....

Tambour's on this cabinet are 7/8" x 7/8" and shaped with a 3/4" round over bit. Tenons are cut 3/16" thick and 1/4"? wide and filed round....... to run in a 1/4" wide track with a 2" diameter corner radius.

DOES NOT TAKE LONG TO MAKE A TRIAL TAMBOUR AND TRACK, nice to know it will work after you make it.....


Don Kondra- Furniture Designer/Maker (http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/donkon/)
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