Impeller update - Cyclone Builders

[Steve In Kemptville]

Ok,

Heard from Bill and apparently there is a new impeller that is similar to the JET one that they will no longer sell to non-customers.

Bill said he has one in hand and has tested it fully. It is exactly in line with the performance of the JET fan except is is much more robust and well balanced. It also has a tapered hub that positively locks the fan to the shaft... much better than the set screws used on the JET or on my Cinci fan.

Ideally a 3HP motor is the ticket to run this but it will spin on a 2HP so long as the ducting overhead is fairly high (I say go 3HP and have piece of mind). Bill used a 5HP compressor duty motor to run his (I think it may have been one of the Harbour Freight motors??)

Price you will have to find out from Sheldon's Engineering yourselves. I suggest someone try to get a quantity of them together and see if by chance there's additional discount available. If the price Bill mentioned to me is right they are still pretty pricey (but then you do get a real quality fan for the money).

I also asked for a spec sheet but as far as Bill was aware there was nothing available yet.

If someone wants to take on organizing a group buy on these you should contact:

Mr. Paul Paton p.eng
www.sheldonsengineering.com
Cambridge, ON
Tel: (800)265-3572
Fax: (905)564-9004

Hope this was helpful.
Regards,
Steve.

[Gump in Renfrew]

Hi Steve,

I'm going to call on your experience in the motor field again. If a true 3hp is the recommended motor size for this impeller, would you recommend switching from the 5hp compressor duty that I had planned on ordering? Or are they somewhat basically the same thing?

Gump

[Steve In Kemptville]

The 3HP is actually more expensive than the 5HP!

The 3hp is a TEFC (Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled) and has a higher service factor.

The 5HP is the same frame size (145T), is open frame (ODP= Open Drip Proof) and has a 1.0 safety factor. It is a compressor duty motor.

I would need to call Leeson to ask the eact technical differences but from what I gather the 5HP is maxed out at 5HP (hence the 1.0 service factor) where the 3HP is a normal industrial motor that is a bit overbuilt to be able to deliver 15% more power than rated (for short periods). I think it is a bit off to assume that the 5hp is the exact same motor as the 3HP. They are also both capacitor start/run so they have lowere startup amperage than an induction run motor.

All in all I think the 5HP is still my preference.

If I think of it I'll call Sylvain @ Leeson and ask what the differences are.

Cheers,
Steve.

[Rajiv_in_KW]

Also, what are ampearages for both motors? I will prolly have to figure out if I can add another 220v circuit without much hassel or not. I currently have only one 220v circuit that is rated at 20amps. looking at the main panel, I don't think I will be able to add another in there. Unless I utilize 40amp circuit that is laid out to the dryer.

--Rajiv

[Steve In Kemptville]

3HP - 14 Full Load Amps
5Hp - 20.8 Full Load Amps

[EaglescU*S*A...]

I've been following this with great interest.Someday I may actually have a structure large enough for one of these big D.C.'s
I do have a question.
What does the heigth of the duct have to do with the size of a 2 H.P. motor?
Just wondering.

[Toshi in Stouffville]

Oh man!.

I like to join those "cyclone builders".

I already finished shelidon Air Foil + 2HP Motor version.

Anyway, Please give me(us) informed.
I like to see how it gose.

[Steve In Kemptville]

Eagle, I don't understand the question????

What duct are you talking about, the diameter of the system ducting, the cyclone inlet, outlet??

The proper Duct diameter is important for 2 reasons, maintianing a minimum air velocity and offering the least resistance ot the air flow.

THe fan is sized to deliver the required CFM of airflow (for our purposes about 800-1000CFM). The static pressure is a fucntion of the fan diameter, the larger the diameter the more SP it will develop. The motor HP is dictated by the volume of air moved by the fan (larger fan, more HP). Bigger diameter fans of the same width will move more air and offer higher peak SP. WIDER fans of the same diameter will move more CFM but offer the same peak SP.

Because a cyclone adds around 4"sp all by itself, it is generally accepted that we need a large diameter fan (12" minimum) to power the cyclone and also have a reasonalbe SP headroom left to move the air through our duct system and hoods. A 14" fan offers higher peak SP and more CFM (if the widths are equal). THe number of vanes also plays a part in performance as does the shape of the vanes (this is why the airfoil has such high CFM in the same diameter with even lower HP than a straight blade fan).

For the fans that have been typically used in hobby type cyclones it seems a 3HP to 5HP motor fits the bill in all cases.

Hope this hits what you were asking about?

[Steve In Kemptville]

Are you asking to be put on the motor list?

It seems you have already got your motor and fan built???

[EaglescU*S*A...]

IN the orin=ginal thread you said,
"Ideally a 3HP motor is the ticket to run this but it will spin on a 2HP so long as the ducting overhead is fairly high (I say go 3HP and have piece of mind)."
That's what I was referring to.

[Steve In Kemptville]

By ducting "overhead" I mean the load the ducting will be presenting to the blower in the form of SP. In short the RESISTANCE of the duct system is known as overhead. The cyclone adds 4" of overhead on it's own.

THe reaason a 2HP will work if the "overhead" is high enough is because at higher SP the CFM drops off and HP demand is a function of CFM moved. If you have low overhead (very little resistance in the ducts) and you open up a couple blast gates the blower will be able to pull more air (less resistance) and moving more air takes more HP. This is the reason I would recommend a 3HP. THis way you can make an efficient duct system, not worry about adding restrictor plates etc and never risk overloading your motor if you open up too many gates.

As it turns out the 5HP is actually cheaper than the 3HP so some may choose to use it instead.

Cheers,
Steve.

[EaglescU*S*A...]

All I can say is DUH!
(that noise you hear is me giving myself a dope slap!)

[Toshi in Stouffville]

Not.
Sorry confusing.
Just keep watching how this go.