Dust collection

[ts]

What are everybody's recommendations on dust collection. I am getting tired of sweeping my shop floor constantly. Should I look for an air filter also? I am concerned about fine dust finding its way into my gas furnace. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

FYI my shop is about 22'x16' if that helps.

[Fred in Windsor]

There are extensive postings on this subject. Just do a search (here and archives). If you have a particular question just ask.

[Bob, in Lachute, Qc.]

Hi TS,

Welcome to what is undoubtedly the most hotly debated topic in the world of woodworking,lol.

Since you're just starting out, I'd recommend you take a bit of time to consider exactly what your needs are, rather than focusing on the dust collector , itself.

You may be totally satisfied with a small dc, that you'd connect to each machine you're using. Each time you switch to another machine, you have to hook-up your dc to that one.

Next, you may want a dc, that avoids connecting and re-connecting. Something capable of efficiently powering a small duct network, permanently hooked up to all the machines.

Once you've decided which is preferable, you may want to look at quality of components, durabilty, efficiency, etc.

Price, should be the last consideration. I realize cost is important to everyone, but doing a thorough analysis of your needs, should bring you to a "reality check" point.

Once you've narrowed down your choices, to an acceptable performance range, THEN, you may wanna think about price and compromise.

The BEST advice I can give you, is "Don't chose the dc first". Look at your needs first, THEN chose the appropriate dc. If you focus on the dc first, you'll probably spend extra money, just trying to get acceptable performance, from an inappropriate choice.

In general, small 1HP dc's, are for direct hook-up, to the machine being used.

1 1/2hp dc's, are a bit more expensive, and may be capable of handling a short duct network. Prices vary from about $300-$500.

A 2HP dc, would be ideal for 99% of home workshops. This is undoubtedly, the most wide-ranging category, from the point of view of actual performance, component quality, and cost. Prices can vary between $350., to well over $1,000.

I don't envy your present position. You're about to find out, that most of the performance ratings of the lower-priced dc's, are grossly over-exagerated. Take your time. Get to know a little bit about these machines, THEN make the appropriate choice.

The only "Technical Point" I'll raise, is that dc's are rated according to how many CFM, or cubic feet of air per minute, they can move. On all but the highest quality machines, you'll be given a figure which is the "Free Air" rating, of that dc. That's how many cfm it will draw, with no filters or ducting attached. Typically, expect half the claimed performance.

From there, it's all down-hill. Every foot of duct you add, will increase resistance to air movement, and reduce cfm. It's of no use, having a dc that pulls 800 cfm at the blower, when what you really want, is 800 cfm , at the "business end" of the duct.

As you tighten your focus, we can present you with some specific considerations, and recommendations.

Good luck, Bob

[matt]

Hey Bob,
I was meaning to ask you this on an earlier thread, but here is as good as any.
I noticed earlier that you posted a link to another forum's discussion on canister DC and how they clog up.
Have you seen this system from Busy Bee? The handle when cranked agitates the filter in an attempt to loosen the fine dust. I haven't taken a close look at the Jet cannister to see if it has this "feature". Whats your thoughts on this? Useless gimmick, or good idea?

Cheers,
Matt



product blurb (http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture?&NETID=1551201014040615010&NTITEM=CT030CH)
http://busybeetools.com/pictures/CT030CH.jpg

[Bob, in Lachute, Qc.]

Hi Matt, I'll answer below. Here's the "Clogging" thread, from "Wood-Net" forum

http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=1119743&Forum=,f2,&Words=clogging&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=1119743&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=0&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post1119743

[Bob, in Lachute, Qc.]

Hi Matt,

I got a good chuckle with the product description, where they say that with a bag you "have to turn it upside down", lol. You just walk up to it, and give it a lil' shake. All the cake, drops into the lower bag. Some "caking" is desireable, and enhances small particle filtration. You'll even see that in Oneida's "Independant, third party" canister-filter testing. Look at what happens, as the filter increasingly get's "soiled".

http://www.oneida-air.com/pdf/filtertest.pdf

The problem with those, isn't so much the "flapper", it's the filter, itself.

Many of those, use paper-faced filters. Those dry out, get brittle, and eventually crack. They can't be washed, too. Replacement can be expensive. The actual filtering material, is a thin layer, of spun-bonded polyester, sandwiched between two paper faces.

These COULD be made to work rather well, however, these guys have done a terrible job in my opinion. Here's why.

As air, enters the bag-tree cavity, there is only one place for it to go, UPWARD, into the filter-cavity. That's because they use a non-breatheable plastic lower bag. There simply IS nowhere else, for it to go.

Now that, in and of itself, is NOT the problem. There is a huge amount of surface to the filter, so air-permeability is great. Correctly applied, the filter would work well.

So where exactly is the problem???? Well, it's in the diameter of the opening, INTO the filter. That opening, is rather narrow. Because of that, the air passing through that "restriction", does so at high-velocity. High enough, to support waste in the airstream. ESPECIALLY lighter particles.

The problem, is further exacerbated by those particles being "trapped" in that cavity, then lodging themselves, between the pleats. The tighter the pleats, the more exagerated the problem.

Oneida, in my opinion, is the ONLY company out there, currently using proper canisters, and even those, are a compromise.

Oneida uses Axtar coatings, for enhanced particle release. They also use very wide pleats, making them easier to clean. They're washable, too. Up to six times if I remember correctly.

Those particular cartridges, are "Optional", not standard equipment. A 130 sq.ft. wide-pleat cartridge, is $345. US.

Don't just "Click" this link. Copy and paste it to your browser, by dragging your curser from the "END" of the link, toward the start. Paste it to the browser address bar, then hit "go"

http://store.oneida-air.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Ductwork&category%5Fname=Cartridge+Filters&product%5Fid=FCS186200

As I've posted many times, not a SINGLE industrial dc manufacturer, uses cartridges, on ANY dc's, other than Pulse-Jet DC's. Those dc's use high-pressure blasts, or "pulses" of compressed-air, to constantly clean the cartridges during use.

In a dirty air-stream, a good quality bag, is a must. For 1/3 the price of that cartridge, you can get your hands on some top-quality industrial needle-felt bags. They're really not expensive. They'll usually be a perfect, tight fit, with all triple stitching, for zero leaks.

Top-quality bags, will easily last 5-10 years, in a home shop. If you buy certified needle-felt filters, look for 16oz, for 1 micron ratings. Bags, like the Belfab dc's use, are 0.5 micron bags. J.R. Normand Inc. carries those. The best I've seen to date. Normand, used to sell those for about $60. each. I'll try to find out what the current price is.

Breatheability, or air permeability, is quite high. Roughly 55-65CFM per sq.ft., so these are "low pressure-drop" filters.

There's a very easy way to make canister dc's work well, but I'll leave it up to them to figure out. If you wanna email me, I'll be happy to explain.

All the best, Bob

[matt]

Thanks for the response Bob.

I've been looking at DC for over a year now. I try and keep my distance from the overly technical threads (they give me a headache ;-). I doubt I can afford to pick one up this year, but if I do I think I'm just going to focus on "chip" collection and leave the lung protection to my mask...

I used to hate wearing a mask, but now that I've spent a few bucks on a good, its not as big a deal.

cheers,
Matt

[Bob, in Lachute, Qc.]

Matt,

Sometimes, these small particle discussions, border on being "anal". Theoretical extremes. A good common sense approach, is always the best.

For someone with respiratory problems, well, for sure they'll want the best protection possible. It's a MUST. Even if that's NOT your case, where you DO have a choice, go with the best filtration possible. Often, that's just a matter of careful selection. It need NOT cost an arm and a leg. Just be selective when shopping. Top quality industrial needle-felt bags, are just BARELY more expensive, than those felted polyester bags, that are so often sold as up-grades.

My father-in-law, has worked wood EXTENSIVELY, all his life. He's now 84. Built many homes, and every stick of furniture, and cabinets, trim, doors, you name it. Also, for all the kids, brothers, sisters, families, clients. Never owned any dc other than a broom and a shovel. Never once had a problem, nor anything even closely resembling a problem. He's in the shop, at LEAST 6 hours a day, at least 5 days a week, even to this day, and started out, as a teen-ager.

As for me, I ended up in a hospital , for eight days, due to a lung infection. NOT from the shop, but helping a friend do a demolition, and remodel. Although we used fans, and masks, and open windows, a sudden wind direction swing, would cause "blow-back", of plaster dust, and usually at the moment when I wasn't wearing a mask, throwing large chunks of plaster out a window, into a dumpster below. Nowadays, I'm more sensitive to dust.

OSHA, and NIOSH standards, were implemented, for the protection of carreer wood-workers, with long-term exposures to possibly toxic materials, especially those used in man-made materials. Many natural woods, however, have also been found to produce damaging effects, ranging from mild irritants, to allergic reactions, to possiblly being carcinogenic.

In my opinion though, it would be foolish, to just simply ignore quality filtration, when choosing a dc. It should be part of the selection process. Always go with the best you can get. As I said earlier, it's often just a matter of being selective, and well informed.

Next time you're at a machinery and tool store, just take a close look at the filters on a General International, compared to those on a cheaper import, especially if it's a 30 micron polyester weave. Good quality filters, with 1 micron ratings, won't ONLY filter small dust particles, they ALSO are MUCH FREER BREATHING, with lower pressure drop(low air resistance). While the 1 micron "holes" are smaller, than those of a 30 micron filter, there are MANY TIMES more holes. That quality filter, will not only protect you, it'll get you better performance, too.

Have a great weekend, Bob