Table Saw Safety Question

[Brian in Dawson Creek]

In the event of a kickback would a good thick leather apron and Face Guard be appropriate apparel?

I hope you guys don't mind some extremely basic questions over the next little while as I have no where to turn to learn about table saws. I asked some one around here for some instruction and he showed me how to free had a piece of wood through a saw (no fence, guard, or splitter) reach over the blade ... Get the idea? I think I could learn better right here. Oh ya, one more thing, he has never been injured and claims only one kickback.

Brian

[GerryinAgassiz]

Brian, what I am about to tell you here comes from my own personal experience and is in no way to be taken as gospel or the last word in table saw use and/or safety. This information is here for you to use or reject or modify as you see fit. I take responsibility for my own actions and am not looking to big brother to wrap me in cotton wool to protect me from every conceviable eventuality. I have been using woodworking power tools for over 40 years and have never suffered a kickback myself, although I have been in the room when a kickback has happened to someone else. Not pretty. That said, the first thing I would do is set up your saw properly. The fence must be set parallel to the miter slot and the blade must be parallel to the fence. Some guys/gals will set up the saw so that there is a tad toe out but in my experience it leads to saw marks, burning, and possible kickbacks. The blade must be flat and run true, no runout. There is an excellent article by Dave Wooland on setting up a table saw on his website (link below). The saw I am using now is a Rexon (Busy Bee) 10" import contractors saw with the original cast pulleys and original V belt. I never did install the blade guard and splitter nor will I in the future. I have a Mule Accusquare fence and an Excalibur Sliding Table attached to it and use Freud blades (usually a 40 tooth combo blade). Before I turn the saw on I visualize the cut and then I make sure my body parts are well away from the sharp spinny thing. That sharp spinny thing can hurt you BIGTIME and should be avoided at all costs. I will not turn on the saw if I am tired or if I am not concentrating 150% on the task at hand. After you go through the procedure of setting up your saw (and do it properly, don't skimp on any of the steps) you will know your saw a lot better and you will get to know it even more as you use it. Get used to the sound it makes when it is cutting properly with the proper feed rate and then you will be able to avoid a lot of kickbacks just by detecting a change in sound from the saw. To answer your question about the apron and face mask, I don't use them. All that apron will do is slow the wood down slightly and spread the damage over a larger area. I've seen a 2x4 get kicked back and go through a garage door 15 feet away. All of the above is by way of saying get to know your saw, get used to your saw, set up your saw properly, and be very aware where the blade is in relation to your body parts. And have fun with it, it is after all, a hobby. Hope some of this helps.

Gerry, still counting to 10 with my shoes and sox on.



The Saw Shop (http://store.thesawshop.com/catalogue/default.php)

[Werner in Winnipeg]

Hi Brian,
In a word No.
I don't have any experience with kick back, but from what I have read on the forum in the past, I'm inclined to say that a thick leather apron might prevent the lumber from going through your guts, bur you're still going to get one hell of a wallop in the gut. A face shield would probably shatter and go flying, giving no facial protection.
When I fire up my saw, I always think the cut through first, even doing a dry run with the blade down, thinking how to make the cut without any body parts in the path of potentially flying lumber and where my arms and hands are in relation to the blade and that I can reach the power switch without endangering myself if I have to shut the saw down while possibly still having to hold on to the lumber.
Hope this makes sense and I'm sure more experienced forumites will pipe in shortly.
Cheers,
Werner in Winnipeg

[Jack in Nepean]

The foregoing was excellent advice - but I think the most important is don't work when you are tired or feel rushed. Nine years after losing part of my thumb to a wobble dado, I set up each cut with any eye (thumb?) to possible problems and stand way the hell away from possible trajectories. FWIW

[Brian in Dawson Creek]

Thank you very much guys.

Brian

[Ken in Regina]

The only thing I have to add is, in addition to keeping your body out of the path of kickbacks, make sure there's nothing expensive sitting in the line of fire.

[Jack in Nepean]

Good point - and how did you discover this?

[edh]

Gerry has good advice here. I am a fortunate hobbyist in that I've had a couple of close calls and had minor injuries only. I can still count to ten, but a few fingers have been shaved.
I do use a leather apron and full face mask and a high quality dust mask.
I consider good lighting above the power tool to be a critical safety factor in my shop. I have installed spotlights above my table saw, miter saw stn and jointer. These spotlights are focused on the dangerous cutting area of the tools. The lights are on when the tool is being used and are a great aid in accuracy.
Because they highlight the cutting area, I always know how close I am to another finger shaving incident.
I recommend that you consider installing similar lights.

Ed H

[Jack in Calgary]

Please excuse the following long winded post, but safety is a serious topic, especially when dealing with a powerful machine capable of hurling hardwood at 100+ mph.

Your first advice was extremely bad and irresponsible. Anyone who advocates freehanding on a table saw should have all his tools confiscated and his mouth duct taped.

I think one very important thing, that hasn't been mentioned yet, is that a splitter should always be used when ripping.

To quote Kelly Mehler (Fine Woodworking #116) "Preventing the work piece from contacting the back of the blade is the only foolproof solution to kickback. That is the job of the splitter." As Ken previously said "don't even ask" how I can confirm that, just listen as I talk through my twisted nose.

I've used a splitter, finger board, and guard when ripping tons of wood during the last 35 years since my first and only kick back. Even though it's sometimes a little inconvenient, I haven't had to duck since, and it actually makes ripping a pleasure.

Without a splitter even the guard can catch your cut-offs causing them to twist into the blade and that creates all kinds of split second disasters.

Follow the previous advise, tune your saw, etc., but also use a splitter for ripping, and you'll not need an apron or shield. Use safety glasses or goggles though.

I've also heard lots of people saying the first thing you should do when you get a saw is to throw away the guard. Maybe they were advised by your first mentor. I wonder how long they have before the next ER trip.

Other operations than ripping often have to be done without splitters or guards and there are some good books that will help (try Lee Valley). Also I'm sure you're going to get some excellent responses on this forum from people who know lots more than I do so keep watching, But in the meantime please, always use safe practices.

Guards and splitters aren't there to cause problems.

[Ken in Regina]

Jack, I agree with you totally about the importance of guards and splitters. I have both on my saw. But.

I am one of those who took the combination guard/splitter off my saw shortly after getting it.

To start with I spent nearly two hours trying to get it lined up. Did the best I could, but it was never possible to get the splitter portion aligned perfectly in both planes. In addition to the time wasted on the initial setup I also spent much more time over the next few days fighting with trying to get it aligned properly. No matter what I did, it either jammed the stock against the fence or twisted it away from the fence.

The final insult was when I bought my first thin kerf blade a few days after getting the saw set up and discovering that the splitter was too thick to work with the blade. The combination guard/splitter came off the saw and has never been near it since.

I made myself a splitter immediately. I now have more than one. I have one for standard kerf and one for thin kerf. I have one that is short enough I can even use it for blind cuts. It accomodates any typical depth dados, eg. 1/4" or deeper.

Not long after taking the original guard/splitter off I got really tired of wearing all the crap that gets spit off the top of the blade and built myself an overhead guard with dust collection. I need to redesign it when I move into my new shop because it's a bit of a nuisance for narrow cuts, but it sure makes using the saw more pleasant.

I can't imagine using my saw either happily or safely with the combination guard/splitter that came with my saw.

But I can't imagine using my saw at all without a splitter and guard.

[Norman (Metcalfe, Ont.)]

I agree with use of a splitter on all ripping operations. This is the least you can do to prevent kickback. However, the blade guard system which comes with most tablesaws can be cumbersome to install and remove..

There are available aftermarket splitters which attach with a thumbscrew or pop up and down. I use the removable one with a thumbscrew.

It's important to understand what causes kickback, then the value of the splitter begins to make more sense. I remember reading article after article about kickback to get a grasp on why boards get thrown back.. It's very clear now...

1.The board binds between the fence and the blade.
2. The kerf closes or pinches behind the blade.
3. Board was not properly jointed prior to ripping, no straight edge riding against the fence surface..
4. Tension released in the wood being ripped causing the sawn halves to close in on themselves.

It's easy to see how the splitter does its job by basically keeping the kerf open so the back of the spinning blade doesn't grab the board and throw it forward.

There are also different opinions on the blade height when ripping or cross-cutting. It's beginning to make sense to me to have the blade higher rather than lower, at least one tooth and gullet free of the height of the wood. In the event of possible kickback, the saw teeth are more perpendicular to the table minimizing any forward projection, rather than tangential which would project the board forward.

Norman

[Brian in Dawson Creek]

I appreciate each and every word that you have all taken the time to put down. I have read and reread this thread and have learned much.

Hard to think about my saw this day…I'm thinking about Danny

Brian

[Werner in Winnipeg]

This threads makes me think how little we know about kick back and its various causes, let me hasten to say that I don't have any personal experience, therefore no points of wisdoms based on experience.
Of course basic saw setup and regular tune up are essential, but that's where the common thread ends.
Actually it goes as far back as fence alignment, some saying to have a gap at the back and other saying it should be perfectly parralel (I'm of the parralel believers), then there is the issue of the kind of saw, kickback is more lickely to happen with a more powerful saw (blade type is also an issue), then there is the issue of guards and splitters, with strong opinions on both sides of the fence, hardly condusive to help a neophite, trying to muddle through the various opinions. Lastly there is the issue of blade height, again a muddled and confusing issue (I Like to keep my blade as low as possible, based on my experience, that's what works for me. BTW I don't use a splitter or a guard).
At the end of the day, the biggest issue is common sense, all the splitter, guards and blade heights are not going to help you if the saw is not properly aligned and if you have a cavalier attitude toward the saw.
I'm sure that the splitter, guards and blade height believers will delight in shooting me down (that's fine, I'm merely expressing an opinion), but I'm a firm beliver that the most important tool is between your ears and if that tool raises a red flag, you better pay attention, of course you have to be able to sense what your brain is telling you, being tired and or having had a few drinks is not condusive to keep your mind sharp.
Limbs have a nasty tendency not to grow back, not to mention the painful way they leave the body they've been attached to, if that's not a strong insentive to stay out of ER rooms I don't know what is.
I'm the biggest wuss when it comes to needles and having had several opportunities for ER doctors to demonstrate the sewing masteries on my body (I played hockey) and setting broken bones, I'm strong advocate of common sense (read using you nugget) in order to stay away from these overworked and well meaning establishments.
Cheers,
Werner in Winnipeg

[J.P.Rap in Hamilton]

All very good advice.
I was very young the first time I used a TS and I was about 13 the first (and only) time I ran my finger through the blade...lengthwise!

Not too long after that I suffered my first kickback. Man did that hurt. Unfortunatly, we didn't have the CWW forum to tell me what happened so I was in the dark as to the reason for it.It happened a couple more times (over a few years)before I found out what was causing it. So you see, you are far ahead of the game then a lot of us were when we started out. Had I had access to this wealth of information when I was 13, who knows were I'd be today.
The first thing to do is "prevent" kick back by following the advice given here. After that, if you want to wear an apron "just in case", that's entirely up to you.

Finaly...and this is not advice!, just my opinion... I don't see the big deal about feeding wood freehand. Iv'e done it and seen it done on many occasions. I wouldn't try to rip a 4' board like that and I don't expect good results but when I just need to cut the end off a piece of scrap or something, I just cut it. Since I bought my bandsaw I use it instead of the TS but I didn't always have one.

have fun
play safe
J.P.

[Dean]

Hi Brian!

My first comment on your question is to ask if the splitter that came with your saw - assuming there is one - has anti-kickback pawls on it. To recognize them, look for a spring loaded toothed piece of metal hanging down from the top of the splitter.
Their job is to hold down the piece of wood should a kickback occur in spite of the splitter being installed. As you`ve read from earlier replies, kickback can still occur even if a splitter is installed. The splitter is there to reduce the likelihood of a kickback, but will not prevent every one. That`s where the pawls come in. They`re the secondary line of defense should a kickback happen.
Other people have written to say that your attentiveness to the operation of the saw is paramount, and that`s completely true. Accidents will happen when the operator is not fully concentrating on the job he`s doing.
Finally, unlike many of the people in this thread, I have been hit with a piece of wood that was thrown back at me, the only difference is that the throwback was from the trim side of the cut and was not caught between the blade and the fence. And no, I did not have my splitter with pawls installed. Like many I considered it a pain in the butt. The wood smacking me in the belly - no damages fortunately - convinced me otherwise. Now the splitter is always installed unless the cut absolutely requires it removed. If so, I make the cut and then re-install the splitter. That`s one lesson I won`t need to be shown twice.