Attaching 2X4 to brick wall

[KT in London]

Hi folks, I am starting a fence build and I have all the posts in the ground. I have been told that for the post beside the house wall, the solution is to attach a PT 2X4 directly to the house wall. This stud would hold the end of a short fence section attached to a gate.

My question? How would I attach the 2X4? My thinking is to drill a hole into the 2X4 and tapcon it to the house. But, would I sink the tapcon into the mortar between the bricks? Is the mortar strong enough? Or would I sink it into the brick itself? Maybe it doesn't make any difference at all? Perhaps I just sink it wherever the hole happens to line up.

Advice is appreciated.

Thanks

[stevem]

tapcon into the middle of a brick

[robphill]

I second the middle, never into mortar

[J.P. Rap]

Third.

Don't over tighten. It's not hard to strip a tapcon out of brick. DAMHIKT

[jlhaslip]

I'm gonna buck the trend and suggest you do not mount the 2 x 4 or the fence to a brick veneer. It isn't structural.
Find another method of adding the post to your fence-line.

[Lost in the Woods]

Not sure if it applies to attaching for the purposes a fence as it does for a ledger for a deck, but I would be inclined to go thru the brick and screw into the joist or studs of the house. As was mentioned, brick is just a weather resistant veneer onto the structure of a house.

[darius]

While it may be a part of the house fore decorative purposes, calling the standard bricks veneer is a little deceptive and far fetched. Properly done brickwork is solid and it can easily hold the little bit of the fence. I wouldn't be worried about the strength of the brick at all. Not if the part of the fence attached to it is static, i.e. not a fence that swings back and forth.

Introducing a hole into either the mortar joint or into the brick itself creates a increased chance of deterioration in frost zones. As water (eventually) enters the cracks and freezes in winter the brick starts to going south. The issue may be of course addressed by use of sealants, but many of those deteriorate too.

[Rusty]

Darius a single layer of brick is "Brick Veneer." Solid Brick construction hasn't been used for decades in residential construction.

Personally I wouldn't fasten any of the fence to the house.

[darius]

Personally I wouldn't fasten any of the fence to the house.

You know that houses are attached to that veneer, don't you?

[Lost in the Woods]

A little extreme, but this video shows that brick is just veneer:

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...TorontoNewHome



Here's another one that recently happened in Montreal also:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...054/story.html

Do you really want sniffer dogs trying to find your body in the rubble?


Along similar lines, these guys in Vancouver are just plain stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKIZk...layer_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvWRK...layer_embedded

[J.P. Rap]

Actually Kevin, That's structural. There is some supporting red iron in there but the brick wall looks to be over a foot thick. It's amazing half the building didn't come down with it. The wall inside is metal studs and is there only to hold the drywall. Had that wall been veneer, there would be a structural wall inside to hold the building up.

[darius]

Kevin, strangely, the first example is definitely a bearing brick wall. In the Vancouver example the bearing walls look like cinder blocks too me and the building is being demolished. Somehow I am not surprised that the circumstances shown in the clip caused the collapse. Honestly, are you?

OP's house would collapse too if hit by heavy machinery, fence attached to the wall or not.

What these examples show is that walls made of masonry can collapse for various reasons, and for the purpose of this thread, not much more.

[robphill]

That's crazy to think a brick veneer wall will be compromised by lagging a fence to it, IMO.

[Rusty]

You know that houses are attached to that veneer, don't you?

I do! Did you know that the only attachment though is Brick ties?

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=h...ed=0CC8Q9QEwBQ

As for the fence attaching, I wouldn't do it because it's not necessary. Put a post in a hole right beside the house and tamp it in good or use concrete or whatever system you're using and forget about it. I have 2 - 6x6's within 20 inches of one another right beside the house. The first one is right against the house but not fastened to it. My 4 foot gate closes against the second one.

[Rusty]

It won't really be compromised unless you consider drilling an unnecessary hole in your brick is a compromise.

I'm not suggesting for a minute that your fence will pull down your brick. Others might be suggesting that I dunno? All I'm saying is you don't need to do it.

[Ryan Shervill]

Lots of good discussion on this......but here's the *best* way to do it.

There can be a surprising amount of force exhibited on a gate post, especially with a heavy or spring loaded gate, and most certainly over extended use. A single tapcon will transfer all of this force into a single point on the wall, not a good thing.

Look at it this way....lets say you have a 15 lb gate....and that gate "hits" the post 200 times a year.....how long would the tapcon connection last if it were a 15 lb slege? You shouldn't rely on the brick veneer to absorb that shock....eventually your mortar will start to give/crack, which will allow water in. This will result in more damage through the freeze/thaw cycle.

Dig down along the side of the house until you hit the footing (it will be a concrete ledge)
Insert your post so it sits on the footing, measure and cut to length.

Run a double bead of PL premium along the entire backside of the post, stick it to the wall and plumb.

Pour in a couple bags of quick post,

Backfill

Done

[Brian @ Muir]

Lots of good discussion on this......but here's the *best* way to do it.

.

Dig down along the side of the house until you hit the footing (it will be a concrete ledge)
Insert your post so it sits on the footing, measure and cut to length.

Run a double bead of PL premium along the entire backside of the post, stick it to the wall and plumb.

Pour in a couple bags of quick post,

Backfill

Done

Ryan... Are you suggesting that the post sit on the footing that is probably at least 8 ft below grade? seems a bit extreme. I have bolted the odd 2x4 to a brick wall using sleeve anchors and have not received 1 call back. I much prefer a post beside the wall and have it cemented into the hole and have never gone any deeper than 3 ft. I always tried to design a gate so the I could have a top rail between the two gate posts to avoid the post carrying the gate from leaning over.

Brian

[cranbrook2]

This is not rocket science This is all you need !

[darius]

I do! Did you know that the only attachment though is Brick ties?

Yeah, I saw those. When I worked as a bricklayer, I think ;)

As for the depth of post holes next to the house, may depend on how old the house is. When it comes to deck footings the building code calls for digging all the way to the footing for houses that are less than a certain number of years old (forgot how many, prob. around 15 to 20). The issue is with the degree to which the back fill is considered to be compacted enough.

[Ryan Shervill]

Ryan... Are you suggesting that the post sit on the footing that is probably at least 8 ft below grade? seems a bit extreme. I have bolted the odd 2x4 to a brick wall using sleeve anchors and have not received 1 call back. I much prefer a post beside the wall and have it cemented into the hole and have never gone any deeper than 3 ft. I always tried to design a gate so the I could have a top rail between the two gate posts to avoid the post carrying the gate from leaning over.

Brian

8 FEET?

I have yet to find the top of a footing deeper than about 4. 'course, things could be different in your neck of the woods, but I've never seen it.