wiring a cyclone

["C"]

Seems to be a hot topic. Lots of info out there - too much really. How should I hook up my 5 hp cyclone? (or how would you hook up a 5hp cyclone?). It's going to be in a closet, so I'd like to also have a light in there and an outlet for my compressor.

Please help,

C

[Bryan @ Woodstock]

2 Dedicated receptacles, a 30 amp circuit for the DC & a 20 amp for the compressor, light can be tapped off existing 120V line .

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Clint, first we need to know what the rated motor current is for both machines.

Regards, Rod.

[matt.mackinnon]

I am in no way an electrician. But I do know that the two circuits are totally different in nature. If you break them apart and answer them separately then you'd get to the root. But I am going to add in a question that Clint will need to get answered too.

Just looking at the Cyclone motor. In my case, this is a Leeson 5hp motor with an amp rating on the unit of 21amps continuous duty. I have spoken with one of the inspectors from ESA over the phone and got totally lost. The break down went something like this.

On a direct hookup of a motor, you need to allow for a larger startup pull, so the WIRE needs to be rated at 125% of the current load of the motor. So on my motor, that means it can carry 26.25amps. So 10g wire needed to be used. But then he went on to say that the breaker needs to be rated at 175% of the current load, that works out to 36.5amps, so I should use a 40amp breaker on the circuit. This is due to you are going to turn on the motor (cyclone) and have it running continuous for hours at a time.
If there was consistency with this I would accept it, but the ESA inspector who came for my rough in, said that I should be using only a 30amp breaker as the 175% doesn't apply.

Do I need to ask a 3rd inspector and take majority rule? or just go with the inspector who is actually signing off on my install?

["C"]

Compressor - 120V 15 amps
Cyclone 5HP 230V http://www.leeson-motor.com/leeson-120554.html

C

[matt.mackinnon]

Clint... if you are planning to run a relay.. do you have the correct one? If you haven't got one, you can have mine if you want. It's just stilling in a box. Either come and pick it up, or cover the shipping cost. Are you going to Hamilton woodshow? or maybe the next CNIB.

["C"]

I have a relay and a 30 amp breaker from clearvue that came with the cyclone parts I got.

C

["C"]

Oh, and the motor currently has a big dryer plug wired to it...... what's the best course of action?

C

[matt.mackinnon]

Oh, and the motor currently has a big dryer plug wired to it...... what's the best course of action?

C

Take it off..



The plug would have a prong for the neutral, and that lovely white wire isn't needed by the motor so inside it can't be really connected to anything. And if it is, then you've got a problem.

I had a thread http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com...or-5hp-cyclone that both JP and Rod gave all the details to hooking up your relay. I came to the conclusion that it was going to cost me about $90 for all the parts to do the job. I wasn't comfortable doing it, and a pre-made magnetic starter wasn't much more. So I bought the starter and hard wired it between my electrical panel and the back wall where my cyclone is installed.

["C"]

No, it doesn't look like that. It only has 3 prongs. Looks like a gigantic 15 amp plug.

$90 for parts? doesn't seem worth it if you can buy a mag switch for a few bucks more. Any other thoughts?

C

[Bryan @ Woodstock]

To hook up the new BS I had to place an extra 30 amp 3 slot twist lock receptacle or switch the cord between the BS and planer. Not wanting to have to be constantly switch plugs on one receptacle, the second one cost $89, box and cover plate, tax, at the electrical wholesale place . HD has the plugs , but not the receptacles. I have used dryer plugs & cords , way cheaper, but you have to splice it to the cord from the machine as the dryer cords are short. Just leave the white wire off if you use that method.

[matt.mackinnon]

No, it doesn't look like that. It only has 3 prongs. Looks like a gigantic 15 amp plug.

Then it's just a standard 30amp plug. The silly part is that you can buy the dryer plugs at HD for a fraction of the cost of getting a 30amp plug. Like Bryan, I went with a twist lock 30amp plug for both my TS and Planer as the plug was significantly shallower and much more safer in my opinion.


This is the standard plug that you would have on a electric construction shop heater.

$90 for parts? doesn't seem worth it if you can buy a mag switch for a few bucks more. Any other thoughts?

C

The price breakdown for me was as folllows.

$50 for an 8x8 plastic box. (the ones at HD looked like junk but I could have saved $20.)
$7.5 inline fuse holder and 1amp fuse
$23 relay 24v || 110v for extra external switchees
$12 24v step down transformer

I had all the switches, so those wouldn't cost me anything. But the kicker to me was that the ESA inspector insisted if I went with a relay switch that I have a disconnect breaker switch beside the relay box that was an extra $20. He said it was to do with the relay being a serviceable part where the starter is considered a closed system. That disconnect would have put me over the cost of the mag starter. I ordered mine from thesawshop.com if you are going to the Hamilton wood show then give them a call and they could bring one to the show for you and save the shipping cost. But then again, you can probably get one from Federated from Dave.

Your costs my vary, but from my experience, it was more of a hassle in time wasted running around after parts than has a cost of your time that you just can't get back. Let us know how the install is going. I am curious has to how you are ducting the sucker. I am still working on putting in the drywall ceiling in my shop. That headache is still to come for me.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have used dryer plugs & cords , way cheaper, but you have to splice it to the cord from the machine as the dryer cords are short. Just leave the white wire off if you use that method.

Bryan, dryer cord sets are special purpose assemblies and are not approved for any use aside from dryers.

Regards, Rod.

[Bryan @ Woodstock]

Bryan, dryer cord sets are special purpose assemblies and are not approved for any use aside from dryers.

Regards, Rod.

I think it was an old planer I hooked up that way , must have been 30 yrs ago now. Good to know Rod Thanks

[J. Vibert]

Do I need to ask a 3rd inspector and take majority rule? or just go with the inspector who is actually signing off on my install?

The only inspector you need to make happy is the one signing off on the installation. The electrical code is not hard fast law, and subject to interpretation by the inspector. He has the authority to bend the rules in your favour if he feels that it's appropriate. I just wouldn't bank on any "interpretation" going in your favour...lol

[Rod Sheridan]

Bryan, there are a few reasons for this

1) the neutral wire is a smaller gauge as it only carries the 120 volt loads such as the motor or lights.

2) the jacket isn't rated for hard usage where it would be rubbed on the floor or flexed often

3) the conductors have a fairly course stranding which isn't good for continued flexing

Regards, Rod.

[Albert]

Clint,

Please be carefull taking free electrical advise on the internet. I recommend you contact a registered electrical contractor to discuss your application. Why I mention this is because you state your intention is to install a compressor and a cyclone in a closet. The building and fire codes need to be reviewed to identify the proper air exchange and accessability. You are getting advice on making the connections but no advice stating it is illegal in the first place. People do enclose equipment for noise insullation, some are legal some are not. You may find that you are looking at a sizeable room for proper air exchange. Also note dust particals in concentration in a small warm room may be explosive requiring explosion proof wirring. If the ambient temperature is above 30 degrees all componets must be properly rated and wire sizes derated accordingly. Usually this is when the engineer re-thinks the size or the room and the scope of the task.

Good luck,

Albert in Oakvile.

[Don Burch]

I tend to agree with Albert. You should get a permit and go over everything with your inspector. His advice is included in the cost of the permit. If you follow his instructions, you will sleep better. This advice is based on my experiences with the inspectors who service my area near Edmonton. Your inspectors may not be as accommodating. But I do believe that they do not want you doing something silly, so will give proper advice.

Don

["C"]

I'm still no closer to wiring this thing

Clearvue cyclone motor wired with a 30 amp plug.
30 amp breaker.
relay from clearvue.

I also want a standard outlet and light. Are these linked to the other, or separate?

link to clearvue manual:

http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Bull...ead.php?t=1266


please help.

C

[matt.mackinnon]

I'm still no closer to wiring this thing

Clearvue cyclone motor wired with a 30 amp plug.
30 amp breaker.
relay from clearvue.please help.

C

i had asked the exact same question in this thread

http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com...light=clearvue

First off you need to know what you have installed. I am to take it that you have a 10gague wire running from a panel to where your cyclone is.

- Is this a 2 wire (black and red) or a 3 wire (black, red and white) + ground ?
- Is there line of sight from the 30 amp breaker where you hooked up to the cyclone?
- How do you want to turn on and off your cyclone?

Before you can get a solution, you will need to answer those 3 questions.