Can anyone here play golf???

[dwoody]

Why can't we produce better golfers in this country? No offense to the current crop of PGA pros I root for every week but cripes if Ireland and Scandinavia can produce world-class golfers why can't we? We have ten time the population of Ireland and a better golf climate than Sweden. I could go on and on and on....
As a final note on a per capita basis Canada is a world-leader in golf participation. If we can put a puck in the 5 hole why the heck can't we sink a putt?

[Andrew_K99]

I'd guess it has to do with the seasons, as we can't golf here year round.

Kind of like how the Jamaicans can't bobsled (though they tried).

AK

[dwoody]

Climate is an issue but it's cold in other countries that produce lots of good golfers.

[J. Vibert]

Cold...? It isn't just cold...

Hard to two putt in a few feet of snow.

[brucert]

Someone gave me a putter once. I cut the end off and epoxied a large treble hook into it and used it as a gaff for ice fishing. Works great.

[darius]

I don't play golf often but I like it when I do. It's one of those healthy activities people can pursue while having having a beer and a smoke.

[Lost in the Woods]

I actually wasn't bad at golf, but I just found it too long and generally boring. Nice scenery while doing it, but that alone isn't enough to get me to go. Fishing is the same to me.

[J. Vibert]

I used to golf quite regulary.... I'd walk a local course first thing in the morning solo.... It was my zen time. Occassionly I'd do the full course if the first nine went well. Now that I have a few kids I simply can't alot the time.

[Greg in Caledon]

I actually wasn't bad at golf, but I just found it too long and generally boring. Nice scenery while doing it, but that alone isn't enough to get me to go. Fishing is the same to me.

LOL exactly the same with me....

[[Scott]]

Why can't we produce better golfers in this country? No offense to the current crop of PGA pros I root for every week but cripes if Ireland and Scandinavia can produce world-class golfers why can't we? We have ten time the population of Ireland and a better golf climate than Sweden. I could go on and on and on....
As a final note on a per capita basis Canada is a world-leader in golf participation. If we can put a puck in the 5 hole why the heck can't we sink a putt?

It may have something to do with this. Kids would rather be Wayne Gretzky than Mike Wier, so more time and effort is put into hockey. How many professional hockey players are Irish?

[Ryan Shervill]

I *do* play golf, that's a certainty.
Now whether I *can* play golf is the debatable part

I suck at it, but I do enjoy it

[Jayked]

I came from the birthplace of golf, and believe me you don't spend much time on the course in the winter. Come to think of it, it's not that warm in the summer either. People with talent, like Martin Laird, usually take off for somewhere warmer such as Florida. Traditionally over there it was an expensive middle-class game, like curling, rugby, cricket. Most working-class kids got into soccer.
Jim

[hoss10]

I always figure I'm not old enough to golf. I play it a couple times a year, but seem to get bored after a few holes. All of friends golf.

[mwallace]

I golf quite a bit, probably close to 60 rounds a year. I grew up working at a private club in Ottawa. Back then I used to play over 80 rounds. 2 players I grew up playing with are now on the nationwide tour. One was able to qualify for the Us Open several years ago at Winged Foot. There's lots of really good players in Canada, but for you to make the Tour you need to be better than great. It's a tough go. My family is from Ireland and Scotland and its not a sport for them it's a way of living. I don't think Canadians have the interest.

[ed on manitoulin]

I actually became quite good at finding golf balls! I spent alot of time in the field or the bush looking for the one I just lost!

[IanW]

I think you are going to see things change over the next 15 years with regards to golfers in Canada. One of the major reasons why some of these international players have done so well is their complete dedication to the game. In Canada, people just don't dedicate to golf like they do in other countries. I agree with others that it is odd because players DO dedicate their lives to hockey.

As an example, Rory McIlroy quit school when he was 16. He was so far behind at that point that he just gave up and golfed full time. This likely means he really 'quit' school when he was 12 or 13. We don't let our kids do that here in Canada unless it is for hockey. And even then, 12 or 13 might be a bit young. It is more like 14 or 15. It is at that age that parents will not worry as much about slipped grades, missing days of school for hockey camps, etc...

Secondly is that parents would rarely consider letting their 15 year old child move to the states to golf during the winter. Now, if it was a 15 year old that wanted to move from a small town to the big city to play AAA bantam hockey then they would be on the next bus. This is starting to change. I know of kids that spend a substantial portion of the winter in the southern states. My own golf coach travels down there throughout the year to work with some of them.

Things are slowly changing to the point where golf is on parents radars much like hockey is.

We are starting to use technology here during the winter months (as well as the summer months). We are also starting to get some truly capable coaches. Actual experts in the game. Sean Foley has been one of the well known teachers of the game since he started working with Tiger Woods, but many people don't realize he has worked with many other professional golfers, as well as a handful of juniors. In the Toronto area specifically, there are some great facilities for young golfers.

The typical path of a Canadian golfer is being a scratch at 12 or 13. Winning junior tournaments and competing for many of the men's tournaments through 14 and 15 (club championships, cities, etc...). Canadian Amateur titles can be won by the time they are 17 or 18. Getting into US College golf programs is usually the first major 'weeding out' of golfers. It is hard to get into a good program, and it is even harder to be successful there. After successful completion of a college program they usually progress to the 'mini-tours' and 'entry level' tours as the Canadian Tour. These guys are good. At any given day, these guys could play any PGA tournament and if they played well they could win. If have a chance to watch these guys you should go for it. They are really good. The next step to the Nationwide, Euro, and PGA tours is a huge step up involving the smallest of details. I know players who have been on the Canadian Tour for 10 years and can't quite make the jump. However they can go out and shoot 63, 68, 68, 68 and come in 5th. They can go to Q-School and miss the top X by 1 shot. It is hard. Really hard.

Our golf programs have come a looong way since I was a wee lad hoping to play on the PGA tour 20 years ago (I am 33 now). Now there is training, computers, coaches, etc... I think over the next 15 years we will see these programs come to fruition and see more Canadians on tour.

And lastly, making a go at playing on tour is very very expensive. The winnings are slim to none. Come in 20th and you don't make enough to cover your costs for the weekend. This is after shooting -12 for the week. Winners are often in the -20 range. Assuming you aren't living at home with your parents you can pretty much budget needing $60,000 or more per year for an apartment and expenses. It is tough to find that type of sponsorship, and you sure aren't going to make that money playing on the mini tours or the Canadian Tour. Lots of players last a few years then have to move on to different occupations. This would be akin to the minor league players for the Marlies (as an exmaple) earning only miniscule salaries (which of course, they don't).


Anyway, that is my take on things.

Ian

[dwoody]

Ian you make a lot of good points and obviously know something about the game. I can't get away from the fact that our participation level in Canada is very high, the general level of interest is high but it doesn't translate into creating large numbers of exceptional golfers over the years. We have lots of guys who are close but none who really excel. I think coaching or the lack thereof has to be part of it.

[IanW]

Ian you make a lot of good points and obviously know something about the game. I can't get away from the fact that our participation level in Canada is very high, the general level of interest is high but it doesn't translate into creating large numbers of exceptional golfers over the years. We have lots of guys who are close but none who really excel. I think coaching or the lack thereof has to be part of it.

Coaching is a significant part. I would say 30% of the equation.

I am one of those guys that decided against trying to make the tour. I was a scratch golfer when I was 16 (about 17 years ago). I was good enough to go play at a tier 2 US college (which I declined). I had 0 coaching. I had almost 0 support from my parents (they wanted me to be a hockey star. 5' 10", 150pounds doesn't make a good hockey star ). I hadn't even taken a lesson from anyone qualified until last summer (almost back to scratch!!!). I had crappy old hand me down clubs from my parents. When I upgraded, I bought a used set of 5 year old Tommy Armour irons that were well past their best before date.

17 years ago when I would have had a chance to at least take a shot at it, there was pretty much nothing in the way of support at all for young golfers. A fellow 2 years younger than me WAS given some support along the way. He started taking the game seriously just as coaching, organized practice, mentorship, etc... was starting to come about for young golfers in at least Western Canada. You can look him up. Mike Mezei. He is now on the Canadian Tour, advanced to final round of Euro Tour qualifying, made it through 2 stages of PGA q-school, etc... He has worked very hard at it and has been one of the more successful Canadian golfers (top 100 Canadians for sure). His Canadian Tour career must be close to 10ish years now. When he was 16 he had some mentors and golf coaches (a man named Dean Spriddle as well as some other high level local golfers in southern Alberta). He has done quite well for himself but struggles to make ends meet because the mini-tours don't pay at all really. Most of the guys on the mini-tour have to fight for sponsorship dollars to even attend the events.

Fast foward to the young 'stars' of the Canadian golf scene today. Adam Hadwin, Mitch Gillis, Ryan Yip, Wes Heffernan and others have had tonnes of mentorship probably from the age of 10. They are now in their early to mid twenties and look to have very promising professional careers.


When I work with my golf coach at Piper's Heath in Toronto I see kids 12 and under working on their game with coaches. It is amazing to watch. I hit the ball pretty well and these kids will plaster me. I would have no quams playing anyone at a local club for a few hundred bucks. I would win some and lose some. For fun I often challenge these young kids to some target practice. We bet an iced tea from the pro shop. Even if I won I would ensure they walked away with a free iced tea, but so far there hasn't been much risk of me winning If I play a good round I can shoot par. These 12 year old kids will hit it inside me all day at any of the flags on the range. THESE are the kids that you will start to see on tour in 10 years time. THIS is where Canada will start to be seen on the golf map. We are just behind as compared to some other countries :(

The sad part of watching some of these kids though is that you can tell which kids will not really have a chance to be successful due to the financial abilities of their families. Most of the kids have the newest equipment in their bags. A few of them are using 10 year old hand me downs. I wish I was financially better off and could buy these kids a set of modern day clubs. Or fund them so they don't have to work at McDonald's 3 nights a week to pay for their memberships.


My last point with regards to the high number of people that play versus the talent Canada is pushing out is that of desire. Most people just play golf for fun. They have no desire to make the pga tour. It is a past time and hobby. Much like most of us on here have no real desire to be the next Sam Maloof. We are happy making furniture for our friends and our own homes. We head out to the golf course with some buddies on Saturday, drink a few beers and eat a few hot dogs, maybe tip a golf cart and oggle the beer girl. Which is perfectly fine

I am trying to make the transition back to competitive golf. I will never be on the tour, but just maybe I will put in a top 25 showing at the Canadian Amateur some day. At 33 years of age though, time is not on my side. I am realizing how expensive my venture will be. New golf clubs, membership, clothing, balls, paying a coach, tournament entries, etc... added up to more than $10,000 in golf related expenses last year. I expect the same this year. Not to mention the 'lost time' to other activities in an effort to get the game better. It is staggering to think that I am probably vested about 10% as compared to some of these young kids out there with the dream of making the tour.

So if you see one of these kids out there at the driving range give them a kudos. They could be out smoking pot or breaking into your car. If your child asks for that new set of clubs because all their friends have the newest stuff, strongly consider it. It actually does make a difference. Figure out a way to help them out. Take an interest in their game. Hockey is easy for a parent to watch. Golf not so much. Do what you can to help them out.


Ian

[dwoody]

Excellent post again Ian. Good luck with your "comeback". I would be interested to read how you have made out at the end of the season. Won't be much longer and we will be back at it.

[Ryan Shervill]

@ Ian: Funny story.....we were in the Dominican 10 years ago, and one of the guys we went with was a big golfer (hung out with Fuzzy back in the 'day ) and talked me into golfing a round with him. He had the best of the best as far as clubs go, I had rentals (did I mention I'm a hack?). Anyway, this young kid (12 or so) who was our caddy STARED at Dave's driver for the whole game. Near the end Dave hands him the club and a ball and nods for him to take a shot.....I have NEVER seen a drive like that kid made. 300+, perfect lift, straight down the fairway. If his short game was anything like his drives that kid could be famous....the sad part is that he'll likely never get the chance.