Home depot remote switch for $25

[J. Vibert]

I could be a smart ass, take a little time finding and then posting a youtube link to someone repeatingly jumping off a bridge without a parachute, but maybe just saying just because someone else is doing it doesn't make it a good idea, will be enough....

[Randy in Calgary]

It might work for awhile, but the arcing on the contacts may result in either

a) The contacts freeze open

or

b) The contacts freeze closed

If you are willing to risk those possibilities, then go for it.

My old beaver lathe had a light switch on the 1/2 HP motor, that I replaced with a double pole motor rated switch from BusyBee.

I'm an electrical engineer with 30 years experience in motors, drives, switchgear, etc. Just so you know where I'm coming from.

[mikeddd]

I could be a smart ass, take a little time finding and then posting a youtube link to someone repeatingly jumping off a bridge without a parachute, but maybe just saying just because someone else is doing it doesn't make it a good idea, will be enough....

Some people use a light dimmer switch for variable speed on electric motors which is a very bad idea. Also some motor starters look like light switch's once they have a cover over them.


mms2.jpg

It all depends on the risks your willing to take.

[mreza]

Shikyo, I'm not an electrician but I do know that although my 5HP cyclone has a FLA of around 20 (actually it's working full load amp as I measured is smaller)
on start-up it draws up to 80-100amps. A 1HP motor that draws around 10amp (on 120v) could be drawing 40-50 amp on start-up. That's way beyond what a light
switch is rated for. In my previous tablesaw (a 1.5HP induction motor) once the contacts of the switch were welded because of the arc's at start-up. I learned this after I couldn't
turn off the motor and had to unplug the saw and dismantle the switch. And that was a switch rated for the job!

[shikyo]

I'm sorry for making everybody excited, however, as I wanted to say my light switchs lasted more than 30 years with 1 HP Beaver table saw and also with my Beaver jointer. I wasn't an occasional user of those tools and I made many things and renovated three houses with them. Those switches I installed had never failed for the entire period.
Those Beaver/ Rockwell tools never came with any switches, and I was told to install a light switch in an opening
usually located of the skirt part of the tool stand. It could be an electric code issue for the Beaver to install a light switch for a table saw. I wanted to get a more professional looking switch for it, however, none of shops for home owner tools carried.
Mag. switches were very expensive and openings for a switch was too small. I think as a maker Beaver couldn't install a cheap light switch so they told their retaiers to tell their customers to install their own light switches. The space was just big enough to accommodate a regular sized switch/plug box. There weren,t any Busy Bee, KMS, Summit, Home of Tools etc. at that time and there are only two brands Beaver and Craftsman were available to us. Craftsman tools always came with switches, and guards however, Beaver never came with switches, nor with a blade guard, pulley guards etc.

I hope you saw the youtube. Her monster lathe is probably equipped with at least 2 HP motor and it runs with 230 volts. The lathe has two switches side by side. I think they are probably for the both sides of live wires. She took over her husband's turning business and they've used thesame lathe professionally for many years, probably for 30 years. Do you think she has been replacing those switches all the time? I don't think so. I think those are installed at the first day of use.

Did you read billh's post? He told us he's been using a 2 HP saw with a 20 A wall switch for 13 years.

"10amp (on 120v) could be drawing 40-50 amp on start-up."
I think an 1 HP motor draws 7 A and when it stars it draws about 50% more current.

[J. Vibert]

I'm sorry for making everybody excited

FWIW, the last thing you comments could do, at least for me that is, is get me excited. I've read so many comments on how standard light switches work just as well, that they all blend together now.

It could be an electric code issue for the Beaver to install a light switch for a table saw.

Replace "could" with "would". That's why you'll never buy a piece of CSA approved equipment in this country that switches a motor load with a standard light switch. Which is weird really, cause so many people do it so it must be safe...

I think as a maker Beaver couldn't install a cheap light switch so they told their retaiers to tell their customers to install their own light switches. The space was just big enough to accommodate a regular sized switch/plug box.

Somehow I doubt Beaver as a company openly advised their retailers to tell the end users to break electrical code. That's assuming there was an electrical code back in Beaver's era. FWIW, I have motor rated switches that will fit within a standard residential switch box, that are at least 30yrs old. A few even have provisions for an overload coil. I'm currently rebuilding a Leland motor from the ~50's that contains it's own 2 pole mechanically assisted motor rated switch, which would easily fit within a standard switch box.

They made what you needed, when you were looking. You just had to deal with the proper suppliers.

I hope you saw the youtube. Her monster lathe is probably equipped with at least 2 HP motor and it runs with 230 volts. The lathe has two switches side by side. I think they are probably for the both sides of live wires.

I'm going to bet you believe there's nothing wrong with switching a 240v circuit in that manner as well....?

Did you read billh's post? He told us he's been using a 2 HP saw with a 20 A wall switch for 13 years..

Ok, so I've been professionally installing the correct type of switches for motors for longer than 13yrs. What's you point..?

You strike me as a good guy shikyo, and I haven't believed for an instant that your position on this topic has been anything more, than just trying to be helpful. The thing is... No matter how many examples you give of people getting away with doing the wrong thing, it will not make it the right thing. Regardless if you want to believe it or not. There is a very real hazard to switching motors with standard light switches. If you wish to take on that risk, then all the power to ya. However advising others to take on those same risks isn't something you should do with a grain of salt. I think I can safely speak for all the excited folks in this thread when I say, we would rather advise others to spend an additional $20 on the switch for their machine, then pretending that doing it the cheap way won't potentially put them in harm's way.

[kerfin]

I bought the Busy Bee remote switch unit rated for what sounds like the same DC. It failed in a week, but they promptly mailed me a replacement and it's been working fine all winter. I keep the remote clipped to my shop apron.
http://www.busybeetools.com/products...10V-15AMP.html

[shikyo]

I think it was very common practice to use an wall switch for 120 V home owner type wood working machines,

*since there weren't any tool suppliers for armatures,
*buying from pro shops was prohibitively expensive
*there weren't any made in China products
*couldn't purchase by internet and had to depend on local stores
*the most common manufacture, like Beaver didn't supply them with their complete packaged products

I am talking about 40 to 30 years ago when I came to Vancouver, and it is true there weren't any stores beside
Ackland(used to be a pro store, now over priced), and two department stores, Simpson's sears and Woodwards.

I don't suggest anybody to replace their proper tools switches with wall switches since you can now purchase reasonably priced tool switches without leaving your house, however, I know from my own experience it is possible to use a single pole 20 A switch with up to 1.5 HP motor equipment without any problems. I forgot to re-mention I've been using a wall switch with an 1.5 HP Delta dust collector for the last three years. Since it is attached to two band saws and a table saw, the switch has been used frequently.

[J. Vibert]

I am talking about 40 to 30 years ago when I came to Vancouver, and it is true there weren't any stores beside Ackland (used to be a pro store, now over priced), and two department stores, Simpson's sears and Woodwards.

I find it more likely that you didn't know where to go for the appropriate equipment then the idea that 1970's Vancouver didn't have any electrical suppliers. Ackland, Sears, and Woodwards must have had power for lights and receptacles, so someone must have been selling electrical building materials in the area. That's where people need to go when searching for industrial equipment like motor switches.

I don't suggest anybody to replace their proper tools switches with wall switches since you can now purchase reasonably priced tool switches without leaving your house, however, I know from my own experience it is possible to use a single pole 20 A switch with up to 1.5 HP motor equipment without any problems.

I highlighted the key phrase... You can get away with it but it isn't the best practice by a long shot.

[petee_c]

I'm just jealous of you guys with a shop big enough for a fixed DC system, and the need for a remote for it...

My shops only about 10x25, and I only have a portable DC.....

P

[J. Vibert]

Nah... who needs a DC anyway. I fired up my stationary planer the other day in the driveway, and just broomed the shavings into the bush beside the lot...

[mreza]

There is distinction between a 1HP motor on a jointer or table saw vs one on a DC. Table saw or jointers do not have a full load on them at the start up.
So the load on them s entirely different than a dust collection.
You might certainly get away with using a 15amp rated light switch on a 1.5HP (which is drawing 15amp on full load) if it is a table saw or something similar but sure the situation is a lot more serious with such motor used in a DC set-up.

[shikyo]

" searching for industrial equipment like motor switches"
Yes, Auckland was a very famous industrial supplier here at that time.
They sold ( I haven't been for the last 25 years.) very expensive equipments and parts for them, however, not for 1 HP amature machines.
I could buy one of industrial switches and install on my table saw, however, nobody (department salesman, people in Auckland) suggested me that.
(I again say, guys in Woodward's told me to install a wall switch for the Beaver table saw.)
I wasn't one of few people who used wall switches for my wood working machines, and the majority of home owner type wood working machines
were equipped with wall switches at that time.
There were two kinds of single pole Liveton wall switches commonly available in seventies. One was with a stubby knob with click and rated for 15 A
and the other was with a skinny knob with no click and rated for 20 A and the advice I got was the latter one.
I moved from Toronto/Kitchener to Vancouver in 1974 and I thought Vancouver was a hick town. Shopping wasn't very easy since there were less variety of stores and
they carried less things than stores in Toronto. I think Ontario is still better place to look for machinery and their parts etc. than BC though we have much better things to
do here with usually much friendly weather.

I'm sorry for my poor English. Because of that I think people have kept asking, suggesting or blaming me almost the same things repeatedly.

*Store sold me the tools didn't sell switches and told me to get wall switches.
*pro-shop sales told me to get wall switches sine their's were too expensive and weren't made for toy machines.
With those, what could I have done other than installing wall switches? I was a newbie in wood working.

The Beaver table saw was a contractor type and I think cost me $450, without a switch, blade guard, pulley guard and made in Guelph.
It was over priced and wasn't very good. The Beaver jointer was I think about $380 and was also very lousy. I stopped buying Beaver and bought US made Craftsman
after that.(There were only two makes available here in 70s). I probably was not interested in spending $100 each ( there weren't any Chinese made switches and they are for industrial machines) for poorly made Beaver tools.(As I said befor, Craftsman tools always came with their own switches.)

[J. Vibert]

I'm sorry for my poor English. Because of that I think people have kept asking, suggesting or blaming me almost the same things repeatedly.

Certainly no apology needed shikyo. Your posts read fine... I'm not blaming you for anything. However, if I sound like a broken record with my replies, it's simply because you keep saying standard light switches are perfectly acceptable for switching motor loads. They are not, regardless of your experience and all the examples of other users doing the same thing changes nothing.

There are major differences between the two switch types, and there's reason for it. This has been explained earlier within this very thread so I won't repeat it. You use light switches, and have had no problems, which is great. The guy who reads your posts here might try the same thing, and end up losing a finger because his light switch welded itself closed and the machine never stopped.

*Store sold me the tools didn't sell switches and told me to get wall switches.
*pro-shop sales told me to get wall switches sine their's were too expensive and weren't made for toy machines.
With those, what could I have done other than installing wall switches? I was a newbie in wood working.

You followed the bad advice you were given. Nothing wrong with that, cause you didn't know it was bad advice. If I went into a "pro-shop" tomorrow and they discouraged me from buying the right switch, I'd buy it anyway, but I know better, and I hope those who stumble across this thread in the future will do the same.

[klassenl]

The light switch isn't designed to start motor loads.

I would say that -some- light switches aren't designed to start motor loads.