Which hinge sizes, brands and sources for solid core interior doors?

[Torontoeon]

I'm in the process of picking hinges for the interior solid core contemporary slab doors I am about to hang in my house. My doors are 1-3/4" thick, 80" in height and range from 26" to 33" wide. I understand I should use 3 hinges per door, but am not sure if I should use 4 or 4-1/2" hinges as both seem to be recommended for this dimension and type of door depending on where I look.

Also, I've been reading about ball-bearing vs plain bearing hinges. Ball-bearing appear to be better but are they necessary on these doors? Are they overkill? Looking on the net just to find approximate pricing I've also noticed that I can find plain bearing hinges that are more expensive than ball-bearing and vice versa. (I'm going for a satin nickel or brushed stainless look). There seems to be no rhyme or reason. I'd like to buy them at t retail location in the GTA (not a big box store) and am also wondering if someone can provide some sources and recommended brands where maybe the contractors buy them. I hear Baldwin is good but they are expensive.

Thanks.

[bender]

4 inch hinges are big enough. Try Empire Hardware near Finch and Dufferin, they have a good selection.

[Torontoeon]

Thanks. Would anyone have any advice on ball-bearing, plain, brand, etc? I was hoping I might get some advice on here regarding those parameters too rather than just going by what the store clerk with a vested interest tells me.

[Rusty]

I'd do ball bearing for sure and make sure the finish matches your door knob hardware. In other words pick it all at the same time.

Where did you get the doors and what is the core material? 33 inches is an unusual size.

[bender]

Here you go.http://www.stanleyhardware.com/defau...t_cht_size.htm

[Gord in Newmarket]

Hi There,

I wouldn't use anything but a 4 1/2" x 4 1/2", ball bearing hinge and 3 hinges per door on what you've described.

There are two places in Toronto that I've done business with in the past and both are decent folks to deal with.

The first place is Commercial Door and Hardware, speak to either Steve Lake or Chris Hynes.

The second place is Hardware Agencies in downtown Toronto, speak to Frank Guarnaccia at the front desk.

My personal preference would be to use a Hagar hinge and don't bother with the NRP hinge, (non removable pin model) it's an added expense that you don't need to bother with.
When speaking to the folks at Commercial Door, ask them to suggest a "Hagar clone", they do sell knock offs and I've used them in the past and they are nearly as good as a Hagar.
You'll have to make the call on that one.

I hope this helps.

All the best
Gord

[Torontoeon]

Here you go.http://www.stanleyhardware.com/defau...t_cht_size.htm

Thanks. That's perfect. I was looking for a chart like that all over the place but couldn't find it. Many textbooks and websites simply said use 4" or 4-1/2" for solid core but it that seemed to me to be pretty simplistic. I figured the hinge chosen should be proportional to the door weight as you could have a heavy narrow or wide door and that some hinges might even have to be larger than 4-1/2" for a really heavy door.

[Torontoeon]

Hi There,

I wouldn't use anything but a 4 1/2" x 4 1/2", ball bearing hinge and 3 hinges per door on what you've described.

There are two places in Toronto that I've done business with in the past and both are decent folks to deal with.

The first place is Commercial Door and Hardware, speak to either Steve Lake or Chris Hynes.

The second place is Hardware Agencies in downtown Toronto, speak to Frank Guarnaccia at the front desk.

My personal preference would be to use a Hagar hinge and don't bother with the NRP hinge, (non removable pin model) it's an added expense that you don't need to bother with.
When speaking to the folks at Commercial Door, ask them to suggest a "Hagar clone", they do sell knock offs and I've used them in the past and they are nearly as good as a Hagar.
You'll have to make the call on that one.

I hope this helps.

All the best
Gord

Thanks Gord. That's the kind of information I was looking for. I haven't bought hinges before so it's hard to know what brands are worth buying. I will get the ball bearing hinge and will visit both those places and check out the Hagars and the clone. I see Baldwin a lot on the net and they appear to be a premium brand. Are they really worth what seems to be more than a 100% +/- price premium over other brands?

[Torontoeon]

I'd do ball bearing for sure and make sure the finish matches your door knob hardware. In other words pick it all at the same time.

Where did you get the doors and what is the core material? 33 inches is an unusual size.

My 1-3/4" thick solid core sapele mahogany veneered doors were custom ordered from JWS Manufacturing Inc. in Scarborough, a company that specialized in architectural wood doors and frames. They closed down a couple years ago (these doors have been in storage for a while) and I found out that apparently some of the staff and equipment ended up at RK Doors, a company that was established the same year JWS closed down and does the same thing they did (http://www.rkdoors.ca/).

And, I made a mistake. The 33" solid core door I have is going to be installed as a sliding door, not a swing door. My solid core swing doors are from 26"-30" wide and weigh from 71lb-82lb. By the Stanley Hardware chart that bender kindly directed me to, and Gord in Newmarkets's advice, I am going to go with 3 x 4-1/2" ball bearing hinges per door. I would have liked all the doors to be the same width but my house is a renovation and expansion of the old smaller existing home and so there were limitations on what I could do.

I will definitely pick the hinges and door handles/strike plates at the same time. As this is a contemporary home I am thinking of going with a satin nickel finish. I would prefer a brushed stainless finish but it doesn't seem to be as available as the satin nickel finish, not to mention being quite a bit more expensive (and I blew my budget on this renovation a long time ago, hence why I am trying to finish some of the work myself).

Any advice on what contemporary door handles are good value? From my research so far I've found Aurum and Columbo (the latter being about double the price as the former). I guess if I cannot find both the hinges and handles at the same place I can buy a sample hinge and take it to another place to make sure the finish matches even if they both are satin nickel.

[Gord in Newmarket]

Thanks Gord. That's the kind of information I was looking for. I haven't bought hinges before so it's hard to know what brands are worth buying. I will get the ball bearing hinge and will visit both those places and check out the Hagars and the clone. I see Baldwin a lot on the net and they appear to be a premium brand. Are they really worth what seems to be more than a 100% +/- price premium over other brands?

The two places I suggested deal in commercial hardware as their core business and quite frankly, you get what you pay for when it comes to this type of hardware. Purchasing quality hardware will go a long way to having doors that work properly for years to come.

Baldwin make a nice product but if you're going to Commercial Door and Hardware and Hardware Agencies, ask them to show you what they've got and if you're not happy with their stock, go ahead and ask them what they would suggest.....................they are good people to deal with.

All the best
Gord

[Torontoeon]

Thanks, I did get the 4-1/2" x 4" ball bearing hinges that I needed (the Hagar clones as you suggested) at Commercial Door and Hardware. This may be a silly question but I have never installed hinges before. There are 4 short (1/2") and 4 long (1-1/4") screws in the package. Which screws go where on the hinge?

EDIT: Whoops, I just realized there are 24 long and 24 short screws in each package of 3 hinges. So I guess since these are solid core 1-3/4" doors I use the longer screws in them. So then are the 1/2" screws for 1-1/4 or 1-3/8" thick hollow core doors or just for 1-1/4" lighter doors and use the 1-1/4" for 1-3/8" doors, light or heavy?

[Gord in Newmarket]

Do the 1/2" long screws have a machine thread on them??

All the best
Gord

[Torontoeon]

Yes they do. They don`t have a point on them like the longer screws.

[Gord in Newmarket]

Yes they do. They don`t have a point on them like the longer screws.

Those 1/2" long screws with machine threads are used to install those hinges into commercial style metal door frames. Twelve screws are used to hold the hinges into the frame and the other 12 screws are used to hold the hinges to the door.
Put those screws aside, you won't be using them for your install.

All the best
Gord

[Torontoeon]

I was just about ready to start and realized that because both sides of the my doors are bevelled instead of just the strike side, I have to create the hinge mortise on the bevelled hinge edge. Does anyone know what the easiest way to do this would be using a jig and router?

I was going to make my own jig out of wood and then use the router to make the mortise but now this seems a bit more problematic because if the jig was at a 90 degree angle to the door face the mortice would then be cut at this same 90 degree angle and would therefore be deeper towards the back of the bevel than at the front. I want the mortice to be the same depth towards the back of the bevel so the face of the hinge is flush with the bevelled edge of the door, not a bit deeper towards the back of the door edge.

Any ideas? How would I make a jig to do this or is there one I can buy? I don`t want to chisel these out by hand as I don`t think I would be very good at it and these were very expensive doors.

[Wally in Calgary]

If your frame is not made yet then just run them through the TS and make the edge square, or use a straight edge and Circular saw and do it. a little sanding or planing and the edge will be perfect.

[Torontoeon]

TS? Do you mean a Festool TS55 or 75? (And I am only thinking this because I was just at Lee Valley here in Toronto and they just started carrying the line and I saw them there and remember the model numbers started with those letters). If so, I do not have one. And, even if I did, these are very expensive solid core sapele mahogany veneered doors and I really don`t trust myself to have the skill to saw them perfectly and worry that they might end up not perfectly square. Also, with a straight edge and circular saw I am sure the veneer would end up chipped along the edge. If they were less expensive paint grade doors I would try to trim them so the hinge edge was square.

[Torontoeon]

I think I found the answer in the video below. This guy made an adjustable jig to mortise different sized hinges in doors of different thicknesses, albeit his is for doors where there is no bevel on the hinge side, ie his jig profile is a U with all sides perpendicular. I would have the bottom of the U at a slight angle to reflect the angle of the bevel on my door edges. I don`t have to make mine adjustable for hinge size as all my hinges are the same size. What I do want is to be able to adjust is the back fence. ie the one leg of the U which you can see in the video that he is able to slide back and forward in order to clamp it on tightly to the door with removable clamps. This is much better than making it the exact thickness of the door which would mean it would be a very tight fit and possible mar the veneered surface as it was slid on and off. And of course it has to be secured very tight to the door or the jig will move when the router is used. I will also make 3 different spacers in the shape of an L to place against the top and bottom edges of the door (with the long side running along the door face) which I would then slide the jig against so that the spacing of the 3 hinges would be exactly the same on each door. This would eliminate the need to use a measuring tape and mark the location each time.

What I need to find to make the sliding back fence like he did are those rails that he has installed into grooves in the wood and those knobs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYReLwLucLE

EDIT: I have been able to find all the items I need to make this jig at Lee Valley. In case anyone else wants to make such a jig I have posted the items I ordered below. I will post a picture of the jig once I have made it (and successfully used it!). (btw, only should have ordered 2 or 4 wingknobs, not 10 - didn`t realize they came in packages of 2).

2012-07-27 22.04.23.jpg

[Wally in Calgary]

I meant Table Saw or a circular saw. To use a circular saw without chipping you just use a 1/8" or 1/4" piece of ply on top of the cut and under your saw and cut both the door and the ply at the same time. It's just like a zero clearance insert. You're making a big job for nothing to gain. You only have to trim 1/8" from your door to make it right -- the way it's supposed to be.

[Torontoeon]

Well I have to make a jig anyway so that's not any extra work, but cutting the doors is, for me anyway. A table saw is out of the question as these are heavy 8' long doors and I am doing them myself. I also don't trust myself to get the doors perfectly square with a circular saw. I appreciate the tip on how to avoid chipping. Thanks.

Most importantly, though, these doors are veneered on the bevelled edges the same as on the face so I would lose that veneer and the edge would no longer match the face as the wood underneath is not sapele mahogany. I know it's just the hinged edge where the sapele veneer would be removed, which you only see when you open the door, but still. Next time I order doors I will make sure the hinged side is not bevelled by informing the manufacturer which doors are left-handed and which doors are right-handed. They didn't ask and just bevelled both edges and I didn't know anything about doors at that time and so I didn't know to specify. One would think, though, that a high-end custom door manufacturer would at least ask what edges I wanted beveled if nothing was specified by me.

I take it that I need to predrill into the mahogany jambs and the door for the hinges?