New vintage subforum - please post links here

[Kris in Toronto]

As you've noticed Bill created two separate sub-forums for vintage tools - one for power tools and machinery and another one for hand tools.

We will try to move specific threads into the new sub-forums, but I would also like to ask all members to help us with weeding.

If you see a thread you think should be moved to the vintage section please post a link in this thread. Please be patient, it will take some time....
We will delete the links from here when the threads are moved.

We will also try to edit the thread titles in this section (and in the vintage power tools section )to make them more navigable.

[Jim in Burlington]

What is the need to have all these subforms? There are only a few posts per week to the handtools board period. What's next having a subforum for every kind of tool ever built?

[J. Vibert]

You can blame me if you like, but the majority spoke in favour of the idea where I started the ball rolling. I think the addition was added here as well, just to keep everything the same.

http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com...hlight=vintage

[Ryan in Edmonton]

I actually really dislike the new sub-forum. It's a bit of a PITA for me, and as Jim pointed out, with only a few posts a week, is it really necessary? A hand tool is a hand tool, vintage or not. I vote to delete the new sub-forum and go back to the way it was!!

[sarir]

What Ryan said.

[J. Vibert]

Why not just ignore the sub forum then....?

If "hand tools" has such low traffic, I doubt using a poll to sway the admin's would do any good. It's a shame that this part of the forum was altered because of an otherwise good decision. For the record, I didn't want sub forums either. Just a place for the ever growing number of members who want to talk vintage machines and the methods used in restoring them.

Although this part of the forum wasn't my focus. I apologize for my role in altering it.

Sorry guys.

[Kayak Jim]

Count me as another who dislikes the sub forum. Not as simple as just ignoring it since I think there is a fuzzier line between new hand tool users and old hand tool users (the tool I mean, not the user). Most have a blend of old and new. Vintage power tools may be a more focused audience.

The previous discussion was held in the Power Tools section and was largely about machinery, as was the poll that kicked off that discussion.

Should be easy enough to get rid of the Vintage Hand Tool subforum. Bill?

[Kris in Toronto]

We are aware of this thread, but no decisions have been made.

[tirebob]

My thoughts being someone who participates in and advertises in many, many, different forums, from automotive to woodworking etc, are that when there is a massive amount of participants and threads are constantly getting bumped down and off the front page quickly, sub-forums are fantastic for keeping topics live, organized and active and easier to find specific information for people who just can't check in as often as they like, BUT,when a forum area is not super busy and most of the people involved will read the majority of the threads posted anyways, splitting them up can have a little bit of the opposite effect where it makes is less clean and simple for those who would normally stay active and involved in threads, and many times the threads end up dying sooner or even missed because the users don't always end up in the sub-forum.

I understand why it was done and if it was busier here I would agree whole-heartedly, but I just think streamlining is more user friendly for most people. Expanding too early has an odd counter effect to that. Personally I think it is a bit early on here to start breaking these areas into sub-forums as I just would rather be able to quickly scan updates when I have a half a minute to look at stuff instead of having to mine further down the forum for the info I want, but that is just my humble opinion and it won't even remotely cause me to stop participating. It's not like it has just destroyed the forum or anything like that. It's just changed the user experience slightly.

My two cents for what it's worth...

["TobyC"]

I like the sub-forum idea, and I wish all of the tool/woodworking forums would do this. If your interests are in old/vintage/antique tools, it's nice to not have to wade through all of the LV and LN stuff. It's no different than separating power tools from hand tools, it should be done. Thank you, I applaud this idea, you have my support. (for what that's worth)

Toby

["TobyC"]

http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com...820-What-is-it

Toby

[Cowtown_eric]

I think that you should have a mega plethora of sub forums for vintage tools, from old hand driven tools, to old electronically controlled tools. And then dubble it for the left handed vinage tools. How could you not agree with that perspective!

That would likely incorporated at least a cupple of doz sub- categories.

And then should you subdivide it into the left handed tools and the right handed tools, then subdivide that again into American and European tools, and subdivide that into collectable, usable, and unusable, with a seperate area for lookie loos.

In other words you could subdivide til the cows come home, and there might be only one msg per year in each category, and that my friend would be the death knell of the forum.

Methinks subdividing might be a clever idea in a massive response situation, but that ain't the case here, hasn't been for years.Or is it too much for a Torontonian. There;s likely a plethora of antique tool folks west of Don Mills who would take on the responsibility if its too much!

Subdivision is a mistake, unless there is a rationality provided, I don't see the point, it just ain't communicated. Does anyone else on the forum have a plausibly rational explanation for it?

Navigatipn in CWW forums was never a problem x many years-at least for me. it was always so easy, and now it's gonna be more complex? why and for what possible unspecified/uncommunicated gain?

Eric
Who's now busy investigating the KISS management principle to find out why some folks ignore it!

[J. Vibert]

Subdivision is a mistake, unless there is a rationality provided, I don't see the point, it just ain't communicated. Does anyone else on the forum have a plausibly rational explanation for it?

Navigatipn in CWW forums was never a problem x many years-at least for me. it was always so easy, and now it's gonna be more complex? why and for what possible unspecified/uncommunicated gain?

It is a shame that the addition of the vintage hand tool forum hasn't been as well received as it's power tool counterpart. However the rational is very clear, and I'll be so bold as to say that's been nothing but great addition to the site. The vintage power tool forum is easily one of the busiest spots on CWW, and has drawn well known authorities from across the globe on the subject matter.

Navigating to either sub forum requires the same amount of mouse clicks as it does for any of the regular forums, so I'm at a loss as to how it's making that more complex.

Nobody likes change if they don't see any benefit, but honestly there were more complaints about the forum skin change then the vintage hand tool sub forum.

It is what it is, and on the whole, CWW is better for it...

http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com...8793-Thank-You!

[Steve in Ayr]

There is a difference between the two though. In the case of the power tools, the change in the design of the tools has been huge. As such, the people that are interested in the different groups tend to be very disparate.
Hand tool change has been much more subtle. Change in materials, accompanied by small changes in design. The difference between a Bedrock and a Lie-Nielsen is much smaller than the difference between a Wadkin and a Busy Bee. As well the people that are interested in hand tools tend to already have one foot in the 19 century. In my mind, the difference between a vintage hand tool and a modern one is much blurrier than is the case for power tools.
I posted something in hand tools recently that obviously should have gone in the vintage section, but it didn't even occur to me to do so until long after the fact. I personally prefer the vintage to be included with the current era for hand tools.

Steve

[Kayak Jim]

I personally prefer the vintage to be included with the current era for hand tools.

Me too. I think you make a very good point Steve about the similarity of modern vs. vintage hand tools.

Jim B

[stevem]

steve is right, powertools have changed hugely in the last hundred years, so have handtools but much more subtly

hand tools also have changed for the better, at least the higher priced ones. powertools on the other hand are going in the opposite direction, getting cheaper everyyear and poorer designed and built particularly in the consumer grade market. hence the big interest in vintage powertools

[J. Vibert]

There is definitely a glaring difference between the two sections, and if I had my way, I'd have just a single general "vintage" section (no sub), and let those wanting to post there do so. Of course there's a reason I'm not at the reins of a successful website either....lol.

I think Eric's comment about traffic surrounding a subject matter is bang on. This was very evident in the power tools section, and obviously not so much here. Without knowing the inside story, I'd have to think the powers that be only create this forum (vintage hand tools) to give the website continuity.

["TobyC"]

http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com...p-identifying!

Toby

["TobyC"]

http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com...anley-7-Type-4

Toby

["TobyC"]

http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com...Stanley-planes

Toby