card scraper

[Al=name]

I'm thinking of buying a card scraper and have been reading up on sharpening them. They seem only being sharpened with a file or stone. I was wondering if anyone had tried sandpaper and glass.

[Ajcoholic]

A small mill file works really well. Sandpaper would work also, but you might dig the point into the paper? For a few bucks, you can get a file that will last years. I have my original nicholson 6" file I bought just for sharpening/truing my scrapers 20 years ago. Still works fine.

AJC

[Ryan Shervill]

They arent "sharpened" with the file and stone (and notice I said "and"...you need both for optimum results), they are merely "jointed" with them (removal of any existing burr and ensuring a smooth uniform surface for stage 2; the burr)
The burr: This is the single most important aspect of a card scraper. What you want to do is use a smooth hard steel (harder than the card scraper) to literally force an edge to stick out from the side of the scraper by raking it along the edge at an angle ....the "burr".

It takes about 15 minutes of practice to get get both jointing and burnishing down to a fine science, and another 15 to learn how to get the most out of it on your wood.

Card scrapers have to be about the best return on investment available. They are cheap and they work better than ANY sandpaper in existence.

[Ajcoholic]

What is the purpose of stoning the edge? I mean, after the file makes the edge straight and square, and you make the burr with the carbide burnisher... if the edge is more polished (as I would assume is the purpose of stoning after filing) does it give a noticeable improvement, than you get with the file alone?

I guess there is only one way to find out..

AJC

[Ryan Shervill]

What is the purpose of stoning the edge? I mean, after the file makes the edge straight and square, and you make the burr with the carbide burnisher... if the edge is more polished (as I would assume is the purpose of stoning after filing) does it give a noticeable improvement, than you get with the file alone?

I guess there is only one way to find out..

AJC

Simple" The smoother the flat edge, the smoother the edge of the burr will be

I've taken to using my Veritas power sharpener for scrapers now...it's ridiculously fast and foolproof way to get a mirror edge

[Darrell]

I sharpen scrapers two ways. File/stone/burnisher and just the file.

If I use a file to joint the edge, followed by stones to polish the edge and face, then burnishing, I'll get an edge that I can renew with a couple strokes of the burnisher. I can renew the edge over and over with a well polished scraper. And it's fast to do.

If you simply drawfile the edge and start using it, you'll find that you can get good results that way too. But I find it leaves a rougher finish than a burnished edge. Maybe I need to use a finer file.

In either case it takes 10 seconds to renew an edge. But you do need to practice a bit. One of those crummy fridge magnets that won't hold up two sheets of paper will stick to your scraper and protect your fingers from the heat. Learn how to push and pull your scrapers. It really helps to switch grips during long scraping sessions. File a radius on the edge of a scraper, not a lot, maybe have the corners 1/8 inch lower than the centre. That's a real eye opener, let me tell yah.

And don't let anyone tell you that you can't scrape softwoods. You can. And end grain too. There are a few tools that are always on my bench. One of them is a scraper.

Darrell

[kerfin]

Years ago I bought a Lee Valley burnisher but never really took the time to get this down to a routine. You guys are inspiring me. I see they also sell a mill file, and even a hand jig (jointer) for holding the file square. Thanks for the postings.

[Ryan Shervill]

One of those crummy fridge magnets that won't hold up two sheets of paper will stick to your scraper and protect your fingers from the heat.

Now that is a heck of an idea! I can't believe I hadn't heard that before. Thanks Darrell.

[Jayked]

Not too many answers to "can you use sandpaper and glass." You can, to polish the faces and edges, though you'll still need a file to get a straight edge of new steel.
You should still be able to find a copy of FWW number 227 (August) on the shelves. There's quite a detailed article on pages 22 to 25 on preparing a card scraper, by Michael Pekovich. He uses a fine diamond plate to polish, but for those who don't want to blow $90 he recommends wet-or-dry sandpaper on glass, grits 320 to 600. He uses a kerfed wooden block to keep the scraper square to the medium. Worth a look.
I'm very fond of scrapers, but I have to say it took me several tries to get the knack of preparing and using them. Could be that I'm unusually dense, though Vic Tesolin confessed at a seminar that he had a similar experience. Worth it in the end, though.
Jim

[Ajcoholic]

Years ago I bought a Lee Valley burnisher but never really took the time to get this down to a routine. You guys are inspiring me. I see they also sell a mill file, and even a hand jig (jointer) for holding the file square. Thanks for the postings.

Thats the set up I have. The original Veritas file/extruded aluminum holder, and wood bodied carbide burnisher. I think my dad got it for me back in the early 1990's (I must be getting old!) when I was still in college, for a Christmas gift. Although I have added a few more scrapers over the years (various thicknesses and sizes) the file is still cutting like butter. And, I never really even thought about stoning the edge, since the file does leave a pretty smooth surface. But, I will have to try the stone to see if I can tell any difference.

AJC

[phil]

You can spend a hundred bucks on an assortment of scrapers, the fancy file holder. the holder which keeps the scraper bent, and the burnishing tool. all good stuff.
If you don't want to spend much, all you need to do is put a zip disk in your tablesaw ( ok don't start a fire with the sparks ) or on your angle grinder, or even a dremil with cut off disks, just cut up an old handsaw into some bits about 2" x 4" or thereabouts. a handsaw usually has about the right hardness. This is a good use for a handsaw with a kinked blade.

use a flat file to draw file the edge, then you can use a hard surface to burnish a hook on the scraper, I just run the edge over the hardened jaw of my mechanics vice., or clamp it and use a hard tool like a pin punch to burnish the corner.

My point is you don't have to spend anything and it is a very important tool. I always use my card scraper after planing, much faster than trying to get a fine finish from a hand plane. I use one a lot for paint and varnish removal, etc.

while you are at it you can make one with a radius , say 1/4 and maybe 1/8th inch for touching up or rounding off corners.

i don't bother with an oilstone or sandpaper. There is no wrong way, whatever works for you. sharpen it square on the edge like an ice skate.

try clamping the work down and putting bend in it and pushing away from you. put some force into it and you'll make lots of nice shavings. You can also use the ends, what ever works.

I like to sharpen both sides, and burnish all 4 corners but I am sure others find it makes it too hard to hold with both sides sharpened.

You can make up some thicker ones with more hook for heavier removal, and thinner ones with no hook for finishing work. sometimes you may want sharp corners for getting into tight corners, ( glue removal) sometimes you want rounded corners so the sharp corners don't leave marks on your work.

LV makes a holder, which is good for long jobs, or for people who don't have a huge amount of strength in their hands, the tool makes it easier to pull towards you with using just one hand. i find I use the scraper more often without the holder. I agree good tip with the magnet, they do get hot. you might also try using one of those edges that are common in stationary supplies, you know , the two sheets of mylar with the slide on plastic thing to make a few sheets of paper into a booklet.

Phil

[Derek S]

What is the purpose of stoning the edge? I mean, after the file makes the edge straight and square, and you make the burr with the carbide burnisher... if the edge is more polished (as I would assume is the purpose of stoning after filing) does it give a noticeable improvement, than you get with the file alone?

I've been playing around with this question recently, and the answer is a definite YES. Careful prep of that edge makes a huge difference to the quality of the cut you get, but it takes some practice. I've tried using a couple of different methods, and carefully polishing a very square edge with the 4000 grit water stone has definitely worked best for me. Have to be careful to avoid wearing tracks in your stone if you try it...

I'm still practising and I'm not quite good enough at it to explain it yet, but the stone is definitely helping - I've been able to get 3-4 burnishing touch-ups per trip to the stone, and I'm just starting to get to the point where I'm seeing the sort of whisper fine curls that you see in the magazines. The article that inspired me to give this a deeper look is in Fine Woodworking 227, which is very recent. They also have it online.

[Kevin H]

FWIW... I learnt what I know about scrapers from Darrell. 15 minute lesson turned a dust collector into a useful tool.

[Al=name]

You can make up some thicker ones with more hook for heavier removal, and thinner ones with no hook for finishing work. sometimes you may want sharp corners for getting into tight corners, ( glue removal) sometimes you want rounded corners so the sharp corners don't leave marks on your work.

Interesting post , Thanks ! I've already sent for a scraper to LV. The scraper I ordered is the #3, the #1 being the thinnest and #4 advertised as being thick enough for paint removal . I've got a handsaw that I can cut up as well. When I read this paragraph you mentioned the hook or no hook as well as the thickness of the scraper determined its usefulness for removal. I would think with a very thin scraper you could only put on a very small hook? I also wondered why a thin scaper without a hook would work any differently than a thick scraper without a hook, since the 90 edge without a hook would be the same on both scrapers?

[kerfin]

Excellent thread. Nice tips the DIY route. Over the years I admit I spent the dollars at Lee Valley and hope I saved on sandpaper. Wish I had simply bought this all at once:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...=1,310&p=61448 .
I now have all those, but cost me more to buy one part every few years. I also have the handy canvas scraper holder they used to sell, but don't see it in their catalogue now.

[phil]

I bought the set from Lee Valley too and don't regret it , but let's face it the forum caters to people of a wide range of financial situations, so just wanted to point out that there are options.

As you use the scraper you usually put a bit of a bend in it. Using a heaver one, holding it firmly and pushing hard on it will remove more material. the thin ones are more flexible and seem more comfortable when doing fine work and using less pressure. so it isn't only about retaining the edge.

I am reading with interest about stoning the edge. I sometimes wonder if people try to go so fine that they are making work that could go easily with a bit of sandpaper. One thing with the scraper though, it does flatten the surface really well, and might leave a nicer finish than paper on some things.

How you go about using the file will make a difference. a good sharp mill file that isn't plugged up with other stuff works best. with a good file you can get a pretty nice surface, but of course a stone would polish the edge better. I often draw file first to remove more material , but finish up with the file in the same direction as the edge to keep from making a hollow and to leave a smoother surface on the edge.

The tool that holds the file is handy because it helps keep the file 90 degrees from the edge. I am sure one could make one of those from wood if they were so inclined. If I use the LV one I find if I occasionally flip the file or shift it over a little, to use a fresh part of the file.
Phil

[Ajcoholic]

Recently I bought a carbide rod style burnisher from Lie Nielson. I tried the technique in the second last issue of Fine Woodworking - and got awesome results! Much better than the wooden block style LV burnisher Ive been using for years. Plus the LN one can be used on my curved scrapers which I had a very hard time to turn an edge on previously.

You can teach an old dog new tricks! Bow wow! ;)

AJC