Kentucky coffee

[J.P. Rap]

I think we can be pretty sure that's what this wood is. I went back to Brantford today and picked up another truck load. I searched for some small branches that might still have some leaves on them but I couldn't find any. If there were any leaves or seed pods on the ground they were buried under all the maple leaves. Leo had mentioned there would have to be another around if this one had seed pods. I seem to recall seeing some seed pods originally so I had a look around the property. I found a tree about 300 feet away that looked very similar so I gathered up some of the leaves from that one. I don't think we can say for absolute certain this is a Kentucky Coffe tree but I think it's about 90% certain and that's good enough for me.

leaves.JPG

I loaded what I could in the truck. I could have fit more but my springs were flat.

in truck.JPG

There was two big pieces that were to big to fit in the bucket of the John Deere so I have to go back to get them and the rest of the smaller ones.

I got them home and stacked them in the drive for now. I have to seal them for storage. They are now under a tarp.

stacked.JPG

When a large limb grows on a tree, it will build a layer of stress wood to counteract gravity. Some trees grow extra wood on top of the limb and that is tension wood. Other trees grow extra on the bottom of the limb and that is compression wood.
Judging by the location of the pith in relation to the curve in this piece of limb, I would guess this is tension stress in this piece. My guess is the limb curves up rather then down.
one log.jpgone log top.jpg


I told the owner if the other tree ever comes down I would be interested in getting more. He told me if I cut it down I can have it.
I told him next year would be better and he agreed.

I'll bring some to CNIB. Place your order now.

[Brian_ToyGuy]

Looks like more wood than you have time to play with.
I really like the little tidbits I get from this forum. I know almost nothing about trees, wood and the stress in the limbs. Your picture explains this very clear, and is a good learning experience for me.
I'll be at the next CNIB..... Pick me for a small chunk.
Thanks JP...... you are a gentleman.

[Ron F]

J.P. I would love to have a chunk of that big or small ...pick me pick me!!
Ron

[Daner]

Good Find J.P. Looking forward to seeing your first turnings

[Leo Van Der Loo]

JP I would like to get a piece, I never turned Kentuckey Coffee tree wood and it is quite rare to find any around here, so I would like to have a chance of turning some.
KNIB I'll be there if at all possible, but I can't guarantee that I'll be there, right now

Here's some info on the extra strengthening of branches and leaning tree trunks.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr117.pdf

[Pete in Welland]

I happen to have a piece of locust with the bark on.
As you can see quite a difference.
IMGP3035.jpg

[Leo Van Der Loo]

That's Honey Locust Pete, we thought at first it was Black Locust IIRC, going by JP's opinion.
It was only after I seen a couple of pictures of the wood that I started to question the ID of that wood.
Of course I'm still not 100% certain, but we'll see

[Bill Simpson]

Leo, I have some seeds if you are willing to wait a while. but first you have to let a deer eat them and pass the seed w/o the hard covering, it can't burst out of it's own shell. or you can take a mill file and cut off the covering, soak in water and plant.

JP the leaves are compound leaves similar to Honey Locust and Walnut. I know of several Coffee trees locally and they appear a lot like Honey Locust minus the thorns, the seed pods of the Locust is thinner than the Coffee pods.

BTW it gets it name from the beans being used to make coffee by pioneers, good thing they were sparce as they contain poisons and soon the pioneers wouldn't be pioneering any more. I did taste the yellow goo that surrounds the seeds in the pod and see why deer love them so much, it is super sweet.

It was at one time the state tree of Kentucky but now the Tulip Poplar holds the title.

If that is a Coffee tree the wood will be a lot like Black Locust in structure and color. From my experience. In fact, they are related.

Take a look at this link http://kdla.ky.gov/resources/kytree.htm

[Pete in Welland]

Bill the Coffee tree (Gymnocladus dioicus) is in the Cassia family along with Honey Locust. (Gleditsia triacanthus)
The Black Locust (Robinia pseudoacacia) is in the Pea family. So not related.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Originally Posted by Bill Simpson

Leo, I have some seeds if you are willing to wait a while. but first you have to let a deer eat them and pass the seed w/o the hard covering, it can't burst out of it's own shell. or you can take a mill file and cut off the covering, soak in water and plant.

JP the leaves are compound leaves similar to Honey Locust and Walnut. I know of several Coffee trees locally and they appear a lot like Honey Locust minus the thorns, the seed pods of the Locust is thinner than the Coffee pods.

BTW it gets it name from the beans being used to make coffee by pioneers, good thing they were sparce as they contain poisons and soon the pioneers wouldn't be pioneering any more. I did taste the yellow goo that surrounds the seeds in the pod and see why deer love them so much, it is super sweet.

It was at one time the state tree of Kentucky but now the Tulip Poplar holds the title.

If that is a Coffee tree the wood will be a lot like Black Locust in structure and color. From my experience. In fact, they are related.

Take a look at this link http://kdla.ky.gov/resources/kytree.htm

Bill I happen to have 4 seedlings that are about 5 to 6 feet tall, and no those seeds did not go through any deers gut, I just planted all the seeds in the one pod I picked up (4 seeds) in my garden when I got home, and all 4 seeds did germinate and the saplings have survived so far, I suppose the cold stratifying did the job on the seeds.
There are a couple of pictures in the earlier thread about this tree/wood
http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com...ky+coffee+tree

The seed pods on the Coffee Tree did remind me of the Fava or broad bean and so did the seeds themselves.

I do agree that quite a few of the Acacia and related family of the Fabaceae (Wattles) do have a lot in common in more ways but still are distinguished from each other, like the pinnate leaves and thorns in places like leaf axis and other places, the bean like pods but also the hard and open pored wood.
I've turned a few different kinds. got some from an friend that brought some from Chili for me, and we had some Acacia in my native country, very tough and stringy wood, saplings were used for farm tool handles in that time.

[J.P. Rap]

Originally Posted by Brian_ToyGuy

Looks like more wood than you have time to play with.
I really like the little tidbits I get from this forum. I know almost nothing about trees, wood and the stress in the limbs. Your picture explains this very clear, and is a good learning experience for me.
I'll be at the next CNIB..... Pick me for a small chunk.
Thanks JP...... you are a gentleman.

I read about that reaction wood several years ago and found it interesting so I knew others would find it interesting too. I'm glad to hear I was right.

Originally Posted by Pete in Welland

I happen to have a piece of locust with the bark on.
As you can see quite a difference.
Attachment 22009

Strangely enough, the second tree on the property had four trunks (Multi stem is one of the characteristics of the K C tree). On three of the four stems the bark looked just like these ones I have but on the forth stem, the bark looked a lot like that honey locust. I thought it was kinda odd. All the stems are about the same diameter.

Originally Posted by Bill Simpson

JP the leaves are compound leaves similar to Honey Locust and Walnut. I know of several Coffee trees locally and they appear a lot like Honey Locust minus the thorns, the seed pods of the Locust is thinner than the Coffee pods.

Take a look at this link http://kdla.ky.gov/resources/kytree.htm

Thanx Bill. Did you see our other discussion about this wood? Have a look here if you haven't. Also in Pete's threads titled "J.P.s Locust".

Originally Posted by Leo Van Der Loo

That's Honey Locust Pete, we thought at first it was Black Locust IIRC, going by JP's opinion.
It was only after I seen a couple of pictures of the wood that I started to question the ID of that wood.
Of course I'm still not 100% certain, but we'll see

We'll know for sure next year when that other tree comes out of hibernation.


I'll be sure to bring a bunch to CNIB. Leo, if you don't make it I'll find someone closer who can bring it home for you.

[Bill Simpson]

Originally Posted by Pete in Welland

Bill the Coffee tree (Gymnocladus dioicus) is in the Cassia family along with Honey Locust. (Gleditsia triacanthus)
The Black Locust (Robinia pseudoacacia) is in the Pea family. So not related.

I didn't say they were related, Just look alike and act alike... You know like In-laws not relatives.

[Pete in Welland]

Originally Posted by Bill Simpson

I didn't say they were related, Just look alike and act alike... You know like In-laws not relatives.

Here's what you said.
"If that is a Coffee tree the wood will be a lot like Black Locust in structure and color. From my experience. In fact, they are related. "
Just to add more confusion the Black Locust (Robinia pseudoacacia) has a wood colour almost identical to Honey Locust a yellow green colour. Wood from the Black Locust is not dark.

[Hoogy]

Hi JP, that is quite a truck load. sometimes big trucks are needed to satisfy our hobbies, I do not belong to the CNIB but I would come down for a piece of that wood and to meet some of the fine folks that contribute to this forum. Let me know when the next meeting is and I will see if I can make it down there. Dirk H

[J.P. Rap]

Originally Posted by Hoogy

Hi JP, that is quite a truck load. sometimes big trucks are needed to satisfy our hobbies, I do not belong to the CNIB but I would come down for a piece of that wood and to meet some of the fine folks that contribute to this forum. Let me know when the next meeting is and I will see if I can make it down there. Dirk H

Check out the thread titled "CNIB poll" for the choosing of the date. So far it's leaning toward Nov 11 at 7:00 PM (in Brantford).
I'm off work that day (unless something changes between now and then) so you could drop by early if you like.
Hope to see you there.
Oh ya, if you show up to a meeting, you're a member automatically. But we might make you buy the first round.

[Bill Simpson]

Originally Posted by Pete in Welland

Here's what you said.
"If that is a Coffee tree the wood will be a lot like Black Locust in structure and color. From my experience. In fact, they are related. "
Just to add more confusion the Black Locust (Robinia pseudoacacia) has a wood colour almost identical to Honey Locust a yellow green colour. Wood from the Black Locust is not dark.

Okay so maybe I did slip in the word Related but I was referring to the structure and color being "related" in density and color... Le' Oops, on my part...

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Originally Posted by Bill Simpson

Okay so maybe I did slip in the word Related but I was referring to the structure and color being "related" in density and color... Le' Oops, on my part...

Bill you are actually right in that they are related, as they all do belong to the very very large LEGUME FAMILY (Leguminosae), with something like 12.000 or 20.000 species (depending who you believe) family of seed plants.
There are 44 native and 6 naturalized tree species and numerous species of shrubs and herbs, according N.A.S. (National Audubon Society)
So they are not the same genus, but they are in the same family, and the wood in those that I have worked with have a lot in common, even if the color is not alike, they are very similar in structure, IMO

[Pete in Welland]

Originally Posted by Leo Van Der Loo

Bill you are actually right in that they are related, as they all do belong to the very very large LEGUME FAMILY (Leguminosae), with something like 12.000 or 20.000 species (depending who you believe) family of seed plants.
There are 44 native and 6 naturalized tree species and numerous species of shrubs and herbs, according N.A.S. (National Audubon Society)
So they are not the same genus, but they are in the same family, and the wood in those that I have worked with have a lot in common, even if the color is not alike, they are very similar in structure, IMO

Yep and using that same criteria I guess you and me are cousins

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Originally Posted by Pete in Welland

Yep and using that same criteria I guess you and me are cousins

More like being European or Caucasian Pete, or maybe as close as English and Dutch

All (most) of these trees have the PEA like pods with the bean shaped seeds, unlike the Acorns, Nuts, Drupes, Cones, Seeds etc.

Just like we have the Acer family or the Willow Family, so we have the Legume family, it is a very large family (3th largest) unlike some that have just a few or even only one like the Ginkgoaceae (Ginkgo biloba) the Elm family (Ulmaceae) only about 200 species worldwide