TV Reality/Fix it Shows

[scott_w]

Originally Posted by willr

That nails a further set of problems.

You have a clueless homeowner evaluating bids of people who might be both very good contractors and clueless contractors. If you do not know how to do the work yourself it is very easy to get fooled .

On top of that as you say -- regardless of who you picked the job often does turn out to be something entirely different than what was asked for and subsequently bid.

This happens in almost all industries -- and it is never easy to resolve where responsibility lies.

This is MY reality. When I bid on jobs, they are not "estimates" they are fixed price proposals. There is a BIG difference. Many contractors are way underbidding jobs just to get them, then making up for it on "extras".

My contracts do include a provision for "unforseen" circumstances, like major rot or mold behind the walls. To date I have never charged for anything outside of the contracted price, unless the client added something to the job.

For example I had one proposal for a bathroom remodel that came in at approx 10K. She was good with the price and even asked to ad the jacuzzi option to the tub. Then the client ended up going with someone for $4700. I couldn't even buy my materials for that!?! So indeed they are not comparing the same jobs.

I find that the worst part of the HOH show is that he makes all contractors out to be crooks.

So for those getting quotes on things, have a scope of work for the contractor to quote, so EVERYONE is quoting the SAME job. This is a detailed outline of the whole project, right down to the finest detail. This comes with all my contracts, and leaves NO question what is included.

scott

[willr]

Originally Posted by scott_w

This is MY reality. When I bid on jobs, they are not "estimates" they are fixed price proposals. There is a BIG difference. Many contractors are way underbidding jobs just to get them, then making up for it on "extras".

My contracts do include a provision for "unforseen" circumstances, like major rot or mold behind the walls. To date I have never charged for anything outside of the contracted price, unless the client added something to the job.

For example I had one proposal for a bathroom remodel that came in at approx 10K. She was good with the price and even asked to ad the jacuzzi option to the tub. Then the client ended up going with someone for $4700. I couldn't even buy my materials for that!?! So indeed they are not comparing the same jobs.

Happens a lot

I find that the worst part of the HOH show is that he makes all contractors out to be crooks.

If that were the case then there would be nobody to fix the screw-ups.

Having a contractors license is no guaranty of competency -- just as being a DIYer is no guarantee of in-competency.

So for those getting quotes on things, have a scope of work for the contractor to quote, so EVERYONE is quoting the SAME job. This is a detailed outline of the whole project, right down to the finest detail. This comes with all my contracts, and leaves NO question what is included.

scott

Scott:

Many homeowners are clueless. I don't think they are capable of doing a "scope of work" and a proper bid request. That is likely the source of many problems.

Clearly you are picking and choosing your clients -- and this is a "good thing". It tends to eliminate the problems being discussed. Good for you!

[willr]

Originally Posted by matt

"Hi I'm Don and welcome to remedial woodworking..." I know its geared as an "Intro" to WWing show, but man they aim low...

Has anyone ever become poor by under-estimating the American Consumer and creating a product for them?

Just curious.

[aussie]

Originally Posted by matt

"Hi I'm Don and welcome to remedial woodworking..." I know its geared as an "Intro" to WWing show, but man they aim low...

Just the way the show is produced makes it seem like a low rent operation from the get go. From the heavily glossed over projects, the sparse set lighting, the "experts" who are about as bright on screen as the lighting and then you add in the scintillating repartee it really is an underwhelming viewing experience.

[ewjsmith]

Well I've been reading through this thread and it's a good one. Lots of good stuff here for debate. I too get a laugh at the homeowners who don't know a nail from a screw at the start of the show and before the reno's all said and done, he's putting on drywall compound (which in my opinion is a real art form) and completing a basement reno job. I don't doubt that these people learn a lot but it does give the viewer the impression that it's all just a snap to complete.

Now with reference to the safety issues. I've got a real beef on this side of things. The show that grinds my axe the most is the HandyMan Challenge. You have Mike Holmes and Jim Caruk as the judges of these handymen who are given challenges. The concept of the show is great but the safety is horrible in my opinion. I watched one episode where I think Jim reminded a guy to put on his safety glasses. Yet they were given a couple of sheets of plywood and some 2x lumber and told "you have two hours to complete.... Go!!!!. You should have seen some of those guys rushing the lumber through the table saws. Gave me shivers. Only a matter of time before someone chops off a digit or two.

[scooby074]

This thread gave me a laugh.

To explain:

Im currently looking for a new house. All these home improvement and "flip your house" shows have given the average homeowner the idea that theyre contractors. And with a little bit of drywall and trendy paint, they can flip their house for 10's of thousands profit.

Between the crooked drywall corners, WalMart laminate, wet "newly remodeled" basements , bumpy tile jobs or 20 potlights on a circuit i just want to scream.

They set their prices as if the work was done by the best craftsmen in the area. Then you make an offer that takes into consideration that I'M going to have to fix their handywork, and im a "lowballer"

So yeah those shows have done more harm than good. Ive had to fix up more than one home owner special.

[Lost in the Woods]

There's a US based flip show, that I kinda like in a sense. It has an advisor who advises the wannabee flipper(s) at the outset, sometimes in progress, and reviews it all at the end before the house goes up for sale. The advisor really seems to know the ins and outs of flipping, but despite what she warns, the flipper(s) often don't listen to her at their own peril. What's best about the show though, is it isn't all "Happy Endings" outcomes. There are some where the house has been sold at a loss, or next to nothing profit, the flipper moving into it themselves, or the house still being on the market for an extended period still and not sold, by the time the show is in the can. People should pay more attention to that kind of show in a sense. Too many think it's a no brainer easy thing to do.

[the_other_ken]

Then there is "Flip this House" with Armando. It turns out that the whole show is a fraud. The lied about what they paid for the houses and lied about what it cost to fix them up and lied about actually selling them. The ones he did sell, he sold at a loss. He was born and raised in San Antonio and the only house he ever sold for a profit was his own...and he had owned it for years.

This is fun reading, especially if you can't stand the guy: http://www.flipthislawsuit.com/

[glenF]

Originally Posted by the_other_ken

Then there is "Flip this House" with Armando. It turns out that the whole show is a fraud. The lied about what they paid for the houses and lied about what it cost to fix them up and lied about actually selling them. The ones he did sell, he sold at a loss. He was born and raised in San Antonio and the only house he ever sold for a profit was his own...and he had owned it for years.

This is fun reading, especially if you can't stand the guy: http://www.flipthislawsuit.com/

Flipping houses often comes up in the various "get rich schemes" you can find out there. Unfortunately, it's extremely rare you can find a property that will turn a huge profit with little work and investment involved.

I know, I've studied this route many times in the past and never found anything that would have generated a decent profit. When all expenses are accounted from the beginning till the end (notary, real estate agent commissions, renos, taxes, unexpected expenses, etc.), you'll be lucky to end up working for a very small salary/profit.

It's understandable, no one will sell you their house for several tens of thousands of dollars under their real market value. If the place is selling for very little money, it's because it's worth very little too and the potential of profit is small. I've learned long ago that there isn't any free lunch in life.

Making money, especially lots of it, requires very hard work and to take a lot of risks. Once and a while you can win big but when you factor in all the other times you have lost, the gains are often not worth the trouble.

Unfortunately, those shows try to depict a different reality and some gullible viewers may be tempted to take this road too. I find it sad because those people often lose their family and friends while working hard at getting rich quickly.

Just my opinion.

GlenF

[petee_c]

I saw this thread yesterday, and found it informative. I found HGTV on our satellite service (Shaw direct) and watched a couple episodes last night before I started to dryfit my tile in my DIY bathroom reno.

I believe with the proper tools, advise (following forums), and the advent of youtube, a DIY can probably do a decent (say 75%+) job of a professional. There is a time factor and education factor (ie extra materials, or ripout/redo cost) for the DIY to consider as well.

P

[Mark in Enfield NS]

Well this sure is an interesting thread. Can't remember who mentioned it, but referencing the guy who failed to properly secure his cabinets to the wall and then had them fall down when he kicked the base cabinets....same show different homeowner...guy builds an exterior wall to give himself a hallway. Puts up a 2x4 wall to take the place of a doubled up 2x6 beam Guess he has no snow issues.

On the subject of Handyman Superstar challenge I completely agree that one of these days someone is gonna loose a digit based on the time constraints they are given. Doing something safely and correctly CANNOT be rushed

And my all time pet peeve? Junk Brothers "Table Saw Wars" What the hell are they thinking???????

Just my .02
Mark

[Lost in the Woods]

Originally Posted by the_other_ken

Then there is "Flip this House" with Armando. It turns out that the whole show is a fraud. The lied about what they paid for the houses and lied about what it cost to fix them up and lied about actually selling them. The ones he did sell, he sold at a loss. He was born and raised in San Antonio and the only house he ever sold for a profit was his own...and he had owned it for years.

This is fun reading, especially if you can't stand the guy: http://www.flipthislawsuit.com/

He seemed too slick to me, I'm actually not surprised.

Nice to see Richard Davis get his 50% from A & E. Now Richard really did seem like a genuinely decent man. Too bad A & E wasn't a decent place for him to be dealing with.

[phil]

I really haven't gotten much info from any of the TV shows, 99 percent of it is hype with the exception of the restaraunt one where it is all hype. I don't believe the "average joe" can do as much as most of the readers of this forum.

The one thing I am sure of is that if I were to hire out all the jobs I have worked so hard to complete in the last 3 years I would be in a lot of debt and still wouldn't be finished. Just by buying only materials I have immediate use for and working slowly and carefully has paid off in both the learning and in the feeling of accomplishment. I think it is pretty easy for some to pipe up "just hire someone" but to make a good decision also sometimes knowing them and how much they would research a project or how much common sense, time and money they have at their disposal.

One thing I have learned is that money that for every dollar I have saved away and could spend on things like hiring out, there are many more dollars that went to living expenses and taxes to get that dollar. I think the main reason why I hate the idea of hiring out is because it puts one in a situation where it isn't easy to fire them out the door and hire someone else.

If they take the job then start getting sloppy with their work. It is also not very easy to take them to court to get a settlement . I think it is the quality level that keeps me doing all I can myself. I have the ability to stretch any job out until I am happy with it but no one that is in business has the ability to do that.

If I were for example to hire out the kitchen floor repairs I have been working on it would not have been cheap. By persevering I will have a nice job at a fraction of the cost of hiring out , albeit it does take it's toll on other things. I think one has to enjoy what you are doing, which I do, and that makes all the difference.
Phil