first post - pricing question

[chris valour]

So first I would like to say that I have been reading this forum for a while now and love the easy access to useful information. And its Canadian. Awesome.

Anyways, on to my question. Being a laid off cabinetmaker (currently waiting by the phone in case they have some work for me today) I have a fair amount of free time on my hands. So, to keep myself busy and practice making things other than melamine frameless cabinets I have been building things for friends. They bring me a picture (usually from the ikea catalogue) and I build it. My question is, how do I charge people. Fist off, they are my friends and this is not what I usually do. Im no pro, just a guy with time and a few tools. I have been looking around trying to find some type of standard way or guide to charge but it seems that people just pull numbers out of their ass.

I don't want to overcharge, and I dont want to sell myself short either. Is there some sort of calculation that I can do to make it fair for everyone?

Thanks guys, hopefully this post isnt breaking any rules or anything.

[OttawaP]

There's lots of discussion of this topic on this forum so a search will help. Start off here.... http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com...ad.php?t=24732. Welcome aboard.

[big mac]

Hey Chris---your not the only one in this boat----the thread that Paul mentioned has a lot in it----don't be afraid to come back and ask a question. I don't have to worry about that myself but I sure know where your coming from---been there---done it---and made it Thank the good Lord And welcome

[chris valour]

Thanks guys. and yeah, it works out well because I get to actually do the things I enjoy. But people have no clue what the cost of materials are and think they can get a custom wall unit with "the best wood" for $200. Only they don't tell me that until I spend time drawing and laying it out.

[Rick Thom]

Originally Posted by chris valour

Thanks guys. and yeah, it works out well because I get to actually do the things I enjoy. But people have no clue what the cost of materials are and think they can get a custom wall unit with "the best wood" for $200. Only they don't tell me that until I spend time drawing and laying it out.

Hi Chris, welcome to the forum.
Like any other job for a client, as part of the initial meeting you need to know some basics about what they would like you to build and also what budget they have in mind. If their budget is unrealistic and immovable, maybe that project isn't for you.

[Tony in Brampton]

My first question is how much do they want to spend. and what do they expect for that? I usually get a quick feeling as to weather or not its doable. If it is. I do a quick materials cost and then think about the labour time.

[Mark in Burlington]

Chris, Work out a price per foot for kitchens, built-ins bookcases ect. Give them a ball park to gauge intrest before before you but energy into it. Good shops don't make up prices and stay in business for long with all the overhead costs. If you are doing WWing on the side, be aware of the issues with tax and insurance which you could be in a conflict with not being registered.
If the people you talk to shop at Ikea for thier furniture they should continue to. The average going rate out there is $500/ft and the total cost is over 2g's for anything for the design, build and delivery.
Good Luck, Mark

[lawrence_leidal]

This question is directed to Mark in Burlington and I apologize if it has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. I've been attempting to contact a fellow in Pickering who is interested in selling his overhead pin, but I've been unsuccessful in my attempts thus far. The machine listed on Kijiji and the one in an old thread you started a couple years ago appear to be the same. You wouldn't happen to remember the fellow's phone number and name down in Pickering, would you? By the way, what kind of condition was it in when you saw it -- it looks a bit beat up? Thanks for any info. I've been following that router for a few years now and I'm always in the hunt for bargains.

--Lawrence Leidal--

[Max In Sudbury]

Welcome to the forum.

You will never compete with Ikea - so if they want Ikea-type-price products, charge them cost of the item, gas to pick it up, and an hourly rate to assemble it - and move on.

When I meet a prospective customer, I bring a portfolio of my work, some pictures of products similar to what they've asked for, and wood samples. I also usually do google searches for similar products to determine market price, adn I have a pretty good idea of what materials and hardware will cost.

After the "hi, how are yous" are done, I will discuss a few design options to see how much thought they've put into the project, and then ask the customer how much they want to spend. If they say that they don't know, I ask how much money they have - and tell them I will do my best to spend less than they have.

I usually charge "market price" for custom furniture/cabinets as long as it covers my materials, labour, overhead, and profit! I never try to compete with Ikea, Zellers, Hart stores, Sears - or even Harvest House.

Max

[DonOtt]

Trying to do work for people who like to shop at Ikea is like people shopping for a Caddy but wanting to pay Focus prices. Several times I have hinted at the cost for making something for someone and after the eyebrow raise and the blowing of air, the inevitable "but I can get something similar at Ikea/Brick/Leons for around the same price".

Furniture at these places are generally not real wood and there is no craftsmanship gone in the design and manufacturing of the end product.

I don't like doing projects for family or friends, they always expect it for free or close to free.

Not very constructive but at least I got to vent...whew!

[Tim in Milton]

Firstly, sorry for not participating in the forum recently - its been a bit hectic.

I have found some success in asking potential customers what their budget is. Most have to be pushed to a ballpark because the initial response is 'not really sure'. However what people really mean is that they don't know how much something should cost but they do know how much they are prepared to spend. Most people are terrified that if the give you a figure that is absurdly high and that you will seize on it. I normally can work out what a job will be close to (although its different here to what I'm used to) by a linear foot pricing as Mark has suggested. I tend to then add 25-30% as an estimate figure to see their response, knowing that it will probably work out slightly lower in reality but would allow me to present a couple of optionss at different price points.

A vital thing to do is to keep a log book of the hours and costs spent on a project so that you know in the future for similar jobs.

One of the things not mentioned in the other post is the fact that there are only about 1000-1200 billable hours in a year for a self employed person. By that I mean hours directly attributable to an actual client/ commission. The rest go on things like quoting and meetings on jobs you don't get, general business stuff, book keeping, workshop maintenance, sick days, lost hours through machinery failure, late deliveries, stock shortages and of course mistakes etc etc. It can therefore be misleading to multiply your hourly rate by 40 hours a week by 48 weeks a year.

As Max said never try to compete with the stores. Ikea sell stuff for less than I can buy the materials...

Hope that helps.

[ub1chris]

I knew a guy, and his work was very high endso a little different, but his rule for potential clients was if someone asks how much, 90% of the time, they can't afford it.

[Mark in Burlington]

Originally Posted by lawrence_leidal

This question is directed to Mark in Burlington "Snip"

--Lawrence Leidal--

I PMed you.
Cheers, Mark