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  • Window 's depth is too short

    I am replacing the existing windows by a windows & doors company. The windows company apparently measured incorrectly on the window's depth and the windows are too narrow to fit the opening. My friend used the same company had the same issue, and the windows company installed by adding the jamb extention to cover up the space (please see the picture below), or just use the old wide window's jamb. They also suggested that if I don't like the way the looks, they can push the window towards inside and do the trim outside of the house to cover the gap.

    I think they should fix the short jamb issue by using the wider jamb, instead of the playing the space on the installation.

    I am quite new on the windows, seeking for suggestion on the proper way of the windows installation? Or if I have to accept their way.

    Thanks in advance
    Zhi

  • Thread Continues Below...

  • #2

    Re: Window 's depth is too short

    Did they remove the old windows to the rough framing (the proper way) or retrofitting into the existing frame?
    Jerome
    Canada's South Coast

    Port Colborne On.
    Every loaf of bread is a tragic tale of grains that could've become beer.......but didn't....

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    • #3

      Re: Window 's depth is too short

      Thank Jerome for the reply. As per the first picture, they will add a 2 inch jamb extension to cover to frame, as per the second picture, they didn't remove the old windows jamb, instead they reused it as the new window is too narrow to fit in. But I don't like either way, I like the windows company to make wider jamb rather, do I ask too much?

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: Window 's depth is too short

        Originally posted by Jerome View Post
        Did they remove the old windows to the rough framing (the proper way) or retrofitting into the existing frame?
        And .... did they quote on inserting new windows into the old frame after removing the old glass or did they quote on removing the old windows completely? If they didn't specify differently, then I would expect a complete window removal and replacement with the correct size of window.

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        • #5

          Re: Window 's depth is too short

          Build outs, or jam extensions, are very common. We often had to do them even on new construction - windows simply are not going to be the same thickness as your wall all the time, especially with the thicker walls we are seeing with ICF and other new forms of building. The build outs are almost always on the inside, as the window often has brick mold, j-mold, or nailing flange designed to flush to the outside.

          All that to say, such extensions are not at all uncommon.

          Replacement windows are often retrofitted into existing window jams by use of Jam extensions just like that. This is probably the default way that window replacement companies work today: the order new window inserts slightly smaller than the existing windows, then remove the existing window glass and frames carefully leaving the jams, then install the new windows in the existing jams, trim them out with jam extensions and some simple Trim, like coving. This is quickest and easiest for them, and saves them from disturbing the existing window Trim.

          It would be better to completely remove the old windows, down to the framing, and then install new windows from scratch. That way you could ensure a good seal to the building envelope and insulation. However, that would be a much more invasive and time consuming job. I would not expect that as the default. Unless you specifically ask to be quoted a complete removal and new install, I would expect most window companies to be quoting the cheaper retrofit option by default.

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          • #6

            Re: Window 's depth is too short

            Thanks John, They quote me on the completely remove the old frame (entire window), they made the wrong size, but trying to push me to accept the installation by adding spacer. They told me they are professional windows & doors company, they do this all the time. So I want to find out if any building code or guidance for the windows installation.

            Comment

            • Thread Continues Below...

            • #7

              Re: Window 's depth is too short

              Originally posted by zhi View Post
              Thanks John, They quote me on the completely remove the old frame (entire window), they made the wrong size, but trying to push me to accept the installation by adding spacer. They told me they are professional windows & doors company, they do this all the time. So I want to find out if any building code or guidance for the windows installation.
              if they quoted full frame removal, replace & installation, I would explain they will receive no monies until that work is done.

              whether they made a mistake, or are trying to screw you over, it is up to them to remedy the situation.



              edit


              if you are content with these new windows, but with proper jambs installed, I would expect a discount considering it is NOT the work/windows you were originally quoted.
              Last edited by beakie; 08-22-2018, 02:37 PM. Reason: new
              [insert something witty here]

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              • #8

                Re: Window 's depth is too short

                Originally posted by callee View Post

                It would be better to completely remove the old windows, down to the framing, and then install new windows from scratch. That way you could ensure a good seal to the building envelope and insulation. However, that would be a much more invasive and time consuming job. I would not expect that as the default. Unless you specifically ask to be quoted a complete removal and new install, I would expect most window companies to be quoting the cheaper retrofit option by default.
                Thanks Callee, the windows purchased is to meet the Green On rebate. I was told that they will remove all windows down to the frame, as there are more restriction on the air sealing etc by the government. They send technician to the house and measured the window precisely (according to the salesman). So if they push the windows toward inside by 2", it looks differently than my other windows, I have 4" jamb right now and have decorations sitting on the jamb.

                It apparently they measured the size incorrectly, but they just want to install it regardless.

                Comment


                • #9

                  Re: Window 's depth is too short

                  Originally posted by beakie View Post

                  if they quoted full frame removal, replace & installation, I would explain they will receive no monies until that work is done.
                  .
                  Thanks beakie,

                  yes, in the contract, it says "Installation: Full Frame, This window meets the technical requirements for the GreenOn Rebate".

                  and there is a description of full frame below:

                  "
                  Full Frame:
                  Our standard installation method.
                  • We will remove the entire window / door, including frame, sash, brickmould, insulation, jamb extensions and
                  interior moulding.
                  • We will install the new window in the rough opening with new insulation, extensions, interior moulding and
                  exterior finish.
                  "

                  So I assume they suppose to fix the jamb depth issue and install the proper one for me, correct?

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: Window 's depth is too short

                    Originally posted by callee View Post
                    Build outs, or jam extensions, are very common. We often had to do them even on new construction - windows simply are not going to be the same thickness as your wall all the time, especially with the thicker walls we are seeing with ICF and other new forms of building. The build outs are almost always on the inside, as the window often has brick mold, j-mold, or nailing flange designed to flush to the outside.

                    All that to say, such extensions are not at all uncommon.

                    Replacement windows are often retrofitted into existing window jams by use of Jam extensions just like that. This is probably the default way that window replacement companies work today: the order new window inserts slightly smaller than the existing windows, then remove the existing window glass and frames carefully leaving the jams, then install the new windows in the existing jams, trim them out with jam extensions and some simple Trim, like coving. This is quickest and easiest for them, and saves them from disturbing the existing window Trim.

                    It would be better to completely remove the old windows, down to the framing, and then install new windows from scratch. That way you could ensure a good seal to the building envelope and insulation. However, that would be a much more invasive and time consuming job. I would not expect that as the default. Unless you specifically ask to be quoted a complete removal and new install, I would expect most window companies to be quoting the cheaper retrofit option by default.
                    Hi Callee,

                    I copy / paste the installation part in my contract, would you think they should do from scratch? Seeking for your opinion as well.

                    "Installation: Full Frame, This window meets the technical requirements for the GreenOn Rebate.

                    Full Frame:
                    Our standard installation method.
                    • We will remove the entire window / door, including frame, sash, brickmould, insulation, jamb extensions and
                    interior moulding.
                    • We will install the new window in the rough opening with new insulation, extensions, interior moulding and
                    exterior finish.
                    "

                    Thanks
                    Last edited by zhi; 08-22-2018, 03:15 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Re: Window 's depth is too short

                      I installed Northstar windows, and they are only a couple inches thick. The jambs are built on site to accommodate wall thickness. Their windows have a slot all around to install drywall or wood jambs with one fastener at each inside corner. As Callee stated, it is quite common to do it this way, as long as they do the work stated on the contract.

                      Comment

                      • Thread Continues Below...

                      • #12

                        Re: Window 's depth is too short

                        Originally posted by Mike in Waubaushene View Post
                        I installed Northstar windows, and they are only a couple inches thick. The jambs are built on site to accommodate wall thickness. Their windows have a slot all around to install drywall or wood jambs with one fastener at each inside corner. As Callee stated, it is quite common to do it this way, as long as they do the work stated on the contract.
                        thanks mike for your opinion! are you adding a spacer for the gap or you redo the jamb completely? They refuse to redo the jamb, just adding 2" spacer inside or outside, is that common in the window business?

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Re: Window 's depth is too short

                          Originally posted by zhi View Post

                          thanks mike for your opinion! are you adding a spacer for the gap or you redo the jamb completely? They refuse to redo the jamb, just adding 2" spacer inside or outside, is that common in the window business?
                          I’m not familiar with the term “spacer” in your application. AFAIK, the vinyl window, jamb, and shims to center everything in opening, are the only components involved. Are you referring to the wood pieces that fills the unfinished pace from the vinyl to the finished edge of the drywall in which the trim is attached as a “spacer”?
                          Ive never had an installer put windows in an opening. For me, it’s always been DIY. I did watch an installer put my MIL windows in and it was as I described above. In her case the jamb was 2”” inches or so.
                          Last edited by Mike in Waubaushene; 08-23-2018, 06:45 AM.

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                          • #14

                            Re: Window 's depth is too short

                            Originally posted by Mike in Waubaushene View Post
                            Are you referring to the wood pieces that fills the unfinished pace from the vinyl to the finished edge of the drywall in which the trim is attached as a “spacer”?
                            .
                            Yes Mike, that's correct. This windows company have its own manufacture in Canada, they make the jamb on various size. I saw the truck load sale in home depot has 2" jamb as well, but I don't think the price I paid is for that.

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Re: Window 's depth is too short

                              I'll echo Mike that I'm not sure what you mean by spacer, and I'll also add that I'm not sure what I'm looking at in your second picture, but the first picture looks like a normal and typical installation to me. It looks (in the first picture) like the original Trim has been removed and the original window fully removed, it looks like the new window has been installed into the rough opening, and they've used some white (likely pre-primed mdf) to make jam extensions about 1 1/2"-2". It looks like the only thing left to do in the first picture is Trim and paint. I can't see, ofcourse, whether they properly sealed it up to the envelope when the installed in the r/o, but what I do see looks good and normal, and I would say meets what is described in the installation contract you quoted.

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