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BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

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  • BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

    After purchasing a new home we were informed that our corner posts for the deck railing are incorrect and noticed many bolts missing in the fascia mounts. Does anyone know what the specific rules are for corner fascia posts with aluminium deck railings and the correct number of fasteners required for the posts? Is there somewhere to look in the BC building code (I couldn't find any specifics on this)? The Home builder assures me everything is fine but I don't trust this.
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  • #2

    Re: BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

    That's not covered under the prescriptive code. It's an engineered system, it has to meet BC standards but under a different part of the BC covering structural design by professional engineers. Systems like this typically come with shop drawings and instructions. In the absence of this information all you can do is make sure you have bolts of similar size and grade as the manufacturers in every hole provided.

    Has this passed building inspection and / or do you have an occupancy permit? Has the builder seen the photo's? That work should not have passed a building inspection and no one should accept any work with bolts missing and other half driven.
    scooby074 and russell90 like this.

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    • #3

      Re: BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

      Whether or not it's a code violation, that sure is sloppy, lazy work. I'd have to start questioning what shortcuts they took with the rest of the house.
      the other Ken
      ------
      "Each flitch, each board, each plant can have only one ideal use. The woodworker, applying a thousand skills, must find that ideal use and then shape the wood to realize its true potential" - George Nakashima

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      • #4

        Re: BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

        Send those pictures to your local building department and see what they say.
        It won’t be positive.

        Nathan
        russell90 likes this.

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        • #5

          Re: BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

          Very poor installation. It's wrong on so many levels. If the house builder was in charge of this and it was part of his obligations then he is an incompetent jerk. On occasion in B.C. finishing is left to a separate entity other than the builder. The builder on those occasions turns the house over prior to full completion. Some details are then handled by the developer who hires so called finishers and stagers. Sorta like decorators.

          All of the pics shown here have titles or comments. The middle pic is the neighbour's corner post so that's not even on your house. However it is the only actual corner post that is correct. I believe the second pic shows the connection of the horizontal rails bolted to the posts. That clearly shows the rails could have been cut shorter to allow proper fit and positioning of the posts even though they are not for corners. My bet is if you go to home depot you will find this product sold from there or Timber Town or Lowes etc. If you can find it the associates at HD etc. may be able to get manufacturers info for you to follow up with your building inspector. The system could work if installed properly and the bolts or screws were into real solid structure not just a prefabbed fascia board. Also through bolts with washers and nuts would be much stronger.

          It's an installation that was really meant for the coast not the interior of your province. You have a dura deck surface which is tough to seal against water infiltration if you put a hole in it for a post. BUT,,,, This installation is no weaker or no stronger than a wooden railing where vertical spindles or pickets are nailed to the face of a rim joist or fascia.

          russell90 likes this.

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          • #6

            Re: BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

            Full disclosure I have attempted to remedy this issue by trying to work with the builder (for this issue and multiple other more serious issues), but after months of stall tactics and avoidance we went through our home warranty provider. But the process has been similar. They, stall, avoid, and deny. Although they have admitted to the lack of fasteners as a defect, they still deny that the corner posts count as a defect even though Their own technical assessor counted it as a defect (the process took more than a year to get them to hire one for an ‘independent’ assessment). We fear adding the screws ourselves for automatically voiding the home warranty. We fear going to a city building inspector for the possibility that they will condemn the deck. A proper repair would probably require replacing the entire railing as it is welded together. I believe that in BC, fascia Posts and corner fascia posts are required by code but couldn’t find the details. That why I Posted here. I really appreciate the advice everyone giving. And will use it as well as I can. Any other thoughts are much appreciated as well!

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            • #7

              Re: BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

              Try to find out who manufactured the railing system. If you can do that, then ask them for the approved installation specification for your situation.

              That's for the remedy.

              As far as the present installation you could get in touch with your local elected officials. They can apply pressure to the builder and building department that you can't.

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              • #8

                Re: BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

                Originally posted by russell90 View Post

                #1 ) We fear adding the screws ourselves for automatically voiding the home warranty.

                #2 ) We fear going to a city building inspector for the possibility that they will condemn the deck.
                I cannot comment on the code because I do not know.
                I can comment on the quality of the work ..... if it was mine I'd change trades and try to find one that I was even a little bit competent at.

                #1 ) I agree ... I would NOT change anything. Let the warranty do the job it is supposed to do.

                #2 ) This is an opinion only .... having the city building inspector condemn the deck might be the match that lights the fire under the warranty people. That condemnation, combined with a lawyer's letter might kick start the repair process, especially if the lawyer's letter starts talking about the builder paying for alternative accommodations for you while the work is being done.

                Again .... just an opinion.

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                • #9

                  Re: BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

                  I agree with John, get a lawyer, dont fix anything.
                  They are stalling you till the warrant expires.
                  • “The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes.”Winston Churchill

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                  • #10

                    Re: BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

                    Get after that painter too. Goodness gracious that's nasty.

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                    • #11

                      Re: BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

                      Sorry folks that's how they do things in B.C. They get away with it because the warranty program is paid for by the builders and the local jurisdictions seem to be in their pockets too.

                      I would like to see some closeup pics of the connections between the horizontal rails and the posts. There are 3 different posts in the assembly. One is a corner post and one is a median post and the last is a termination post. There are also left and right termination posts. The termination post is used incorrectly for a corner post and that's the biggest issue. I would also like to see a pic of how high and how wide this deck is.

                      If I were the owner I would fix it myself, document the repairs and chase whoever he wants for payment. Hire a competent repairman to do it if you are incapable.

                      Since you haven't contacted the building inspector I would contact them and document and record the proceedings.

                      I've been in court against what appears to be scoundrels like this more than once and I'd love to help you but you've probably spent enough money. So follow the advice in paragraph #3 and the best I can do is tell you how to fix it. As mentioned in #5 and again in #7 find the manufacturer of the railing system hardware. I believe it will be "Royal."

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                      • #12

                        Re: BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

                        Here are some various pictures of the upper and lower part of the posts and the brackets that join them at the top and some other extra pictures of the main deck. The deck is 10ft wide and there are two decks, the smaller one on the 3rd story. We are currently investigating who might be potential installers of this railing in the local area but we think they might have come from the Vancouver area.

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                        • #13

                          Re: BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

                          So what you have is a lousy installation using the wrong posts. I was expecting precisely what your pics show . It is a bolted together package similar to "Royal's" product although I don't think it is Royal. Royal does ship out of Vancouver though. It comes apart and the glass lifts out. It is not Welded together and I did not think it would be.

                          The new home warranty program will not make repairs as they are not a service company and do not employ service people. However they are supposed to enact a procedure to force the builder to make repairs. My bet is the installers may have travelled from Vancouver, although I don't know why they would, and have not been paid properly and an incompetent builder doesn't even know how to fix it. Frankly it looks like the last house the installers did and simply used pieces of whatever they had left over rather than order the right parts from Vancouver. Do any of your neighbours have similar installations. If they do the workers did not know what they were doing.

                          I've installed several Royal enclosures very much like yours. The last was 2 years ago on my painter's FIL"s deck. Given the proper parts it's a 3 or 4 hour repair job. Find the parts and hire a competent renovator who has at least 1 helper. Unless your warranty people kick in or your bldg inspector does his job you are probably SOL. You might try to involve your homeowner's insurance as a dangerous risk waiting to happen. Only you can decide if you wan to do that.

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                          • #14

                            Re: BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

                            Is this a brand new freehold townhouse or a strata condo? If it's a condo, I would confirm with the condo corp if the deck and the railing system is their responsibility (and costs) and push them to certify that it is built to specifications and has passed building inspection. I'm with Dave K in that this type of railing is an engineered system, and that the manufacturer would have engineered stamped drawings to detail compliance to building code. Of course the second part is that the installer adheres to the drawings for the anchoring of the posts. I built a deck last year (in Ontario) to my design using the Regal system of railings. I included the dwgs from the manufacturer in my submission to the building dept and got my building permit without any issue.

                            The first set of pictures showed the posts bolted to the fascia, but the entire deck substructure is covered, and I would be concerned that the bolts are adequately anchored to the joists, blocking, and rim joists, especially since the posts show complete disregard to using the complete quantity of bolts and leaving some bolts not torqued down.

                            I would be less concerned about the costs to remedy (ideally the builder would assume costs), and more concerned with the possibility of the railing failing and have serious injury as a result. Is the smaller 3rd floor deck showing the same level of quality in the railing?

                            WP_20180718_18_44_17_Pro.jpg
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by macquanski; 01-06-2019, 09:17 PM.

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                            • #15

                              Re: BC building code Fascia mounts for 2nd story aluminium deck railings

                              Super info Don. Great job on your deck too!.

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