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  • AndrewSmith
    started a topic -18 degree magic by concrete slab

    -18 degree magic by concrete slab

    I noticed all day today that the driveway near the garage is wet. I thought it was strange for -10 degrees, but it was sunny, so who knows.

    Now it's 19:30, -18 degrees celcius, and windy. How is it possible that this water is not frozen?

    DSC05888.JPG-small.jpg It's hard to see in the photo but that's water on the concrete, not ice.

    The garage is unheated and the 1/3 of it that's attached to the house is newly insulated. It's not warm inside, in fact the snow and ice on the car haven't melted for over 24 hours.

    The concrete is years old, it was done curing long ago.

    There is nothing under the garage floor. Sand and crushed rock under 15cm of concrete.

    I also noticed that in the back yard (the other side of the house) the ice rink I made melts more quickly in some spots than others.

    Is it possible that there are some geothermal forces doing this? Leaking gas lines? A nearby portal to hell? Or what!?

    If I sat there without boots for 30 minutes they'd have to cut my feet off at the hospital, that's how cold it is.

    I'm not generally a fan of conspiracy theories or magic, but this is seriously challenging my logic. Please help me understand what's going on! Or volunteer your own joke

  • Rod Sheridan
    replied
    Yesterday I was walking around puddles in the parking lot.

    A combination of salt and sunshine on the black surface...............Rod.

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  • Rusty
    replied
    I will take the broken windshield any day compared to the rust on Ontario or is it the GTA cars.

    It's the brine made by salt melting snow and ice that is the issue. It ain't rocket science. The problem with salt melting ice and snow is the liquid/water refreezes if you don't get it to run off the road or sidewalk. The typical result is everyone gets to drive the same colour car. Salty white. The underbelly gets to rust away quietly. BTDT. If you want a good used car come to Alberta.

    Leave a comment:


  • corpaul
    replied
    Originally posted by AndrewSmith View Post

    Yep, that was it! I thought that stuff stopped working when it gets cold enough. Someone told me that in Quebec they don't bother to put salt/calcium on the road and just use sand over the ice because it's too cold. But I've only heard that once from one person.

    Maybe they were thinking of the far north ice highways.
    In Edmonton they put sand on the roads. Gives you a nice grip. Though the sand is usually not filtered well so there is small gravel in there (and hence you see lots of broken windshields here... I am not sure yet whether this is better than the rusty bottom cars I used to see in Kingston, ON).

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  • callee
    replied
    Originally posted by AndrewSmith View Post

    Yep, that was it! I thought that stuff stopped working when it gets cold enough. Someone told me that in Quebec they don't bother to put salt/calcium on the road and just use sand over the ice because it's too cold. But I've only heard that once from one person.

    Maybe they were thinking of the far north ice highways.
    There's lots of places around here that use sand instead of salt. I tend to prefer it. It works better and doesn't hurt the environment or, more importantly, my car.

    Salt is great down in the city where you have otherwise bare or visible asphalt or concrete, and you want to deal with black ice.

    But once you get any build up of "hardpack" snow - which around here is what you have on any sidewalk, driveway, back road or main road excluding the 400 highway - the salt is pretty useless. It simply melts and sinks into the hardpack, leaving a tiny little salt-shaped hole where it used to be. That hole really does nothing to change the slipperiness of the hardpack, so you wipe out just the same as if you hadn't salted. Sand, on the otherhand, sits nicely on the surface and makes it nice and grippy.

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  • Rod Sheridan
    replied
    Yesterday I was walking around puddles in the parking lot.

    A combination of salt and sunshine on the black surface...............Rod.

    Leave a comment:


  • schor
    replied
    did you taste it as rusty suggested? I am also thinking salt water.

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  • Beaverfever1988
    replied
    Originally posted by AndrewSmith View Post

    Yep, that was it! I thought that stuff stopped working when it gets cold enough. Someone told me that in Quebec they don't bother to put salt/calcium on the road and just use sand over the ice because it's too cold. But I've only heard that once from one person.

    Maybe they were thinking of the far north ice highways.
    Salt works to minus 15 or so but I would mix nitrogen in with it to lower the melting point, nitrogen on its own doesn't do anything though.

    I've heard about only using aggregate for traction from a lot of people up north. 2 of my friends lived in North bay during college and that's all they did then. They told me about hearing about them rollering the snow to ice then grooving it. Work with what ya got I guess.
    Last edited by Beaverfever1988; 01-21-2019, 06:41 PM.

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  • Beaverfever1988
    replied
    Originally posted by AndrewSmith View Post

    It seems so unlikely, but so does every other explanation. So maybe?

    The water pipes are at least 5-7m away from this spot, but I noticed also a strip of my flagstone with melting snow. That strip over under flagstone over a slab of concrete which sinks a couple of millimeters every year. And it's between the melt in the photo and the water line.



    Though I don't put anything on the driveway to melt the snow - I guess some will come back from the road on/under the car.

    My wife had a good suggestion too, maybe it's the bits of oil and grease on the garage floor that mix with the water to drop its freezing point.
    If it was a water line you would have a geyser. Water line pressure is 70 psi, go thermal are little psi and I've seen them bubble up from 9ft of backfill in minutes. Even in super Sandy soil with bedrock underneath you'd still know pretty quick.

    Your wife is kinda right as well, not so much from your garage floor but from the roads as well. It's amazing how much your car will track around. I can do 10 times a better job salting using 1/3 of the salt by dumping in high traffic areas opposed to spreading evenly everywhere.

    What no one seen tremors?
    Last edited by Beaverfever1988; 01-21-2019, 06:31 PM.

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  • AndrewSmith
    replied
    When it dries you might see white powder there.
    Yep, that was it! I thought that stuff stopped working when it gets cold enough. Someone told me that in Quebec they don't bother to put salt/calcium on the road and just use sand over the ice because it's too cold. But I've only heard that once from one person.

    Maybe they were thinking of the far north ice highways.

    Leave a comment:


  • Randy in Calgary
    replied
    Originally posted by AndrewSmith View Post
    A nearby portal to hell?
    I'm pretty sure that if hell actually exists, there are easier ways to get there than from under your garage.

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  • bender
    replied
    Calcium Chloride ice melter, maybe. It's got some strange properties when it comes to moisture.

    I like that eclipse theory though. Just for the sake of nostalgia.

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  • Rusty
    replied
    Taste It. I bet it's pretty salty. Run off rom your car and all the salt Ontario throws on the roads.

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  • Woodwreck
    replied
    Yes, it was caused by anticipation of last night's Blood Red Moon eclipse.

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  • AndrewSmith
    replied
    Municipalitie waterline leak?
    It seems so unlikely, but so does every other explanation. So maybe?

    The water pipes are at least 5-7m away from this spot, but I noticed also a strip of my flagstone with melting snow. That strip over under flagstone over a slab of concrete which sinks a couple of millimeters every year. And it's between the melt in the photo and the water line.

    All the years plowing snow I've always seen snow melt on concrete quickly. I believe salt in the water soaks in the concrete and melts the snow. There may be other common chemicals/minerals seeping out... calcium maybe? When it dries you might see white powder there.
    Though I don't put anything on the driveway to melt the snow - I guess some will come back from the road on/under the car.

    My wife had a good suggestion too, maybe it's the bits of oil and grease on the garage floor that mix with the water to drop its freezing point.

    Leave a comment:

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