Garage 'ceiling height'

[Wood Grower]

Ya I totally get where you are coming from.

I think your only options are to try to raise the whole roof.
Or replace the whole roof with new trusses.

Or leave it and replace the entire building - which is what I would do.
Too small is always going to be too small.

Fyi I have done similar things - I have vaulted ceilings and modified roof structures so supporting beams were not needed.
I have modified a roof structure so a car hoist could be installed in the building.
I have lifted garages and poured new floors under them.
I have re-leveled cottages and trailers.
I have lifted cottages and added basements.

In my professional opinion (12 year carpenter) - I would not try to modify that roof.
Its a mess.
It looks like it was under built and someone added a bunch of blocking to try to compensate.

Nathan

Exterior change not possible. It is on or maybe over property line. It is legal non conforming. A new spot required to build.

i just look inside book last night and I might have a plan. It was stated earlier jack post install but I see it is possible to install overhead jack post. Just might be an idea to double or triple support at end of overhead door and rear wall and carve out middle with new system one at a time. Could give a few feet extra anyways.


ya the roof is junk. The whole building is junk. Why I don’t have too big of dreams for it beyond knocking down.

I will see tonight what is up if it more time in there or dump it and go new...... just have to wait until after work for now......

[nnieman]

I am not 100% sure it’s future. I do know I hate it as is and I do know lifting roof is not an option. I want a new building mine is too small. I can barely move. It is like car and a half with about 7-8 foot height. The wall appears to have wood laying on top of wall and probably attached to the wall top of concrete blocks. Then everything looks built on top of that wood. We are talking 40-50% of the length to raise and it isn’t very long. Maybe 25 feet. Never put a car in so not sure.... I wouldn’t even try putting a car in. It’s stupid the way it is build too close to the house about a car width and open both doors on each side kind of distance from the house. I want high ceiling building with lots of floor space. If I can get headroom in existing I can finish startup of my machines tool them and maybe make a couple small thing then dump it. If I get garage new now I’ll have harder time running and tooling machine.....

Ya I totally get where you are coming from.

I think your only options are to try to raise the whole roof.
Or replace the whole roof with new trusses.

Or leave it and replace the entire building - which is what I would do.
Too small is always going to be too small.

Fyi I have done similar things - I have vaulted ceilings and modified roof structures so supporting beams were not needed.
I have modified a roof structure so a car hoist could be installed in the building.
I have lifted garages and poured new floors under them.
I have re-leveled cottages and trailers.
I have lifted cottages and added basements.

In my professional opinion (12 year carpenter) - I would not try to modify that roof.
Its a mess.
It looks like it was under built and someone added a bunch of blocking to try to compensate.

Nathan

[Wood Grower]

What is your long term plan for this building?

Are you planning on tearing it down and building a new one?
When?

Or are you thinking if you can get the ceiling height then you will keep it?

It is a concrete block building correct?
How is the roof structure attached to the blocks?

Lifting the entire roof and adding another two rows of block might be an option.

If you are thinking the building might be torn down and replaced in the near future then I personally wouldn’t spend any time or effort on improving it.

Nathan

I am not 100% sure it’s future. I do know I hate it as is and I do know lifting roof is not an option. I want a new building mine is too small. I can barely move. It is like car and a half with about 7-8 foot height. The wall appears to have wood laying on top of wall and probably attached to the wall top of concrete blocks. Then everything looks built on top of that wood. We are talking 40-50% of the length to raise and it isn’t very long. Maybe 25 feet. Never put a car in so not sure.... I wouldn’t even try putting a car in. It’s stupid the way it is build too close to the house about a car width and open both doors on each side kind of distance from the house. I want high ceiling building with lots of floor space. If I can get headroom in existing I can finish startup of my machines tool them and maybe make a couple small thing then dump it. If I get garage new now I’ll have harder time running and tooling machine.....

[nnieman]

What is your long term plan for this building?

Are you planning on tearing it down and building a new one?
When?

Or are you thinking if you can get the ceiling height then you will keep it?

It is a concrete block building correct?
How is the roof structure attached to the blocks?

Lifting the entire roof and adding another two rows of block might be an option.

If you are thinking the building might be torn down and replaced in the near future then I personally wouldn’t spend any time or effort on improving it.

Nathan

[QC Inspector]

That's nice to see. Civilized behaviour.

Pete

[cstephens2]

LOL ... ok.

Moving on.

Lol ... ok.

Yes

[John Bartley]

"In the case under discussion in this thread, what I would likely do is "

Saying thats not a suggestion is hair splitting on your part. Sorry. Not Sorry.

LOL ... ok.

Moving on.

[cstephens2]

I didn't suggest an approach.

"In the case under discussion in this thread, what I would likely do is "

Saying thats not a suggestion is hair splitting on your part. Sorry. Not Sorry.

[John Bartley]

WRT to your suggested approach:

I didn't suggest an approach.

[cstephens2]

I'm just going to post this as an observation and an idea of what "I" would do if this were my thread and garage. This is NOT an encouragement to do anything.

In this part of the country, "making do" has always been part of the psyche and because we have small populations spread out over large areas, the resources are sometimes limited, including building inspections etc. There has traditionally been an easing of requirements around here for buildings that are not habitations, including garages. Most of the garages around here are constructed using home brew trusses and rough cut, unstamped lumber. The trusses are assembled using plywood webs nailed to both sides of 2" x ?" parts, and that includes my own garage here, built several decades ago and still as solid as a rock.

The OP's garage is not trusses however, so ....

In the case under discussion in this thread, what I would likely do is cut a cross tie piece the same thickness as the rafters, bevel the ends to fit "under" the rafters and cut it to a length that allows it to be installed about 12" or 18" above the current ceiling joist. Then I would create plywood webs, large enough to span from the end of the rafter at the eave (or as far down as I could go), along the new cross tie about 18" to 24" (whatever looked appropriate) and up past the tie toward the ridge an equal length to the length below the tie. I would install verticals the same way in order to create a torsion box effect using the existing rafters, new cross ties and new verticals and use the ply webs to spread the load across the joints. Once that was done I would cut out the existing ceiling joists (cross ties) to make my new headroom.

Again, this is speculation, but it's what I personally would look at.

I grew up on the prairies and saw and worked in many an old farm building with roofs exactly like the one OP posted. Your comment on 'in this part of the country' holds zero water IMO as independence is a trait found across the country.

WRT to your suggested approach:

How high the current ceiling joist can be raised is a matter of math, not guesswork: As you raise the level of the ceiling joist it transitions from being 'in tension' and helping to keep the outer walls from bowing outwards to 'in compression' where the weight of the roof acts as a inward force. An engineer can assess the strength of the walls, the pitch and weight of the roof, and most importantly (in my experience) the max snow load values for your region/area and then determine if, and how high, that ceiling joist can be raised.

[cstephens2]

It was stated early on this sort of thing is possible, however some people are trying to say don't bother because you don't know what your doing without knowing what I know. I can fabricate something that will be stronger than an engineer would make and stamp and the material costs will be lower than engineering costs. Engineers try to figure out the minimum material to do something safely.

If you know how to fabricate something stronger and safer than an engineer would make it then why did you come here asking for input? Figure it out and post the pics.

[Kayak Jim]

I hope you don't tear it down and start from scratch as I'm interested in seeing what you come up with for a design and end up installing. It seems you have plenty of ideas.

[Jerome]

FYI
When you need a building permit


You must obtain a building permit before you:

• construct any new building over ten square meters in area or place another structure, such as a mobile home, on your property
• make renovations or repairs or add to a building
• change the use of a building
• excavate or construct a foundation
• construct a seasonal building
• undertake work regarding the installation, alteration, extension or repair of an on-site sewage system

Contact your municipality if you have any questions about when a building permit may be required.

https://www.ontario.ca/document/citi...20a%20building

[Wood Grower]

With all due respect according to the Ontario Building code which has jurisdiction here and the Canadain Building code that is exactly what he has to do. All the advice he has gotten here is great but changing the structure as he wants to is illegal without an engineered drawing and the approval of the local building department. As a facilitator for the OBC and a longtime construction worker, I think I know what id be doing but, I would not attempt this without an engineer's approval and neither should anyone else.

You should see all the buildings I have seen pop up non-permitted. Built from scratch. Permit required. I also don't see them falling down or collapsing. It is possible to build something without an engineer figuring everything out for you. Should every building be completed permitted possibly, but will every building be completed permitted, probably not.

[Wood Grower]

With all due respect telling somebody to hire an engineer and bring in inspectors is the lazy answer. There is nothing difficult about what he wants to achieve and the value is not there to justify an engineer's study. For a couple of hundred dollars he can replace the ceiling joists with a superstructure that will be stronger than they were.

Thank you.