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Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

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  • #31

    Re: Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

    Originally posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    The CEC doesn't require upgrades on circuits that are not being modified.

    Your local inspector may have other thoughts on the issue depending upon the situation, also you're in Quebec, the local codes are the law not the CEC..........Rod.
    Right. If your just replacing an old receptacle with a new, no AFCI is required, but if you add a receptacle to an existing cct, then it must be AFCI protected. As always, check with your local AHJ for the final word.

    Related, I have a friend with 30 or so rental properties & he's regularly buying & selling. When it's an old house with ungrounded wiring, we will install a bank of blank front GFCIs beside the panel to feed the old circuits in the house to make them safer. Most of those old houses have panels that you can't get GFCI breakers for. It's a good, cost effective solution.
    Last edited by drzaius; 01-13-2021, 07:01 PM.

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    • #32

      Re: Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

      So... had an electrician replace the old *lets have a bon fire" commander panel, so we had a general discussion on wiring. This is for Quebec.
      1: If you have ONLY LED lights on a circuit, you can have as many as the breaker supports, even if the bulbs are interchangeable. There are thermal cutoff switches in the housings that prevent installing much higher wattage incandescent bulbs. If you mix loads then it is back to the maximum of 12 connections per circuits breaker.
      2: all electrical installations in a bathroom must be GFCI protected. Typically use one GFCI receptacle and run the rest of the lights, fans etc off of that. You can use a GFCI breaker in the panel but it is more expensive. Few do that.
      3: In Quebec all bedroom outlets must have arc fault protection breaker. So typically bedroom receptacles are fed of a Arc Fault breaker in the panel with nothing else connected. that is what I did.
      4: 40 Gallon hot water tanks are ok with 20 amp 240v and 12gauge wire. 60Gallon tanks require 30 amp and 10 gauge (assuming not excessive wire lengths)

      Ed

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      • #33

        Re: Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

        Originally posted by EFZauner View Post
        *lets have a bon fire" commander panel
        That's not reassuring. The house I've been in for a year has a commander panel.

        I've been trying to get it changed out with a service upgrade to 200 amps... first electrician flaked out, then the pandemic hit and I was distracted by other things In speaking with the current electrician, he seems good, but now I'm waiting for the utility service request to go through. More than 2 months waiting on them, apparently there's a backlog.
        ​​​​​​
        ​​​​​​​I can't get this thing out of my house fast enough though reading contents like that!

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        • #34

          Re: Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

          I have never hear of Commander Panels having a problem. Plus the only time a panel has a problem is when someone is using the breaker as a switch. If your not doing that your fine. Federal Pioneer Panels used to have that problem. They were bought out and the panel style was not made any more.
          https://www.facebook.com/gregsreinventions2016/

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          • #35

            Re: Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

            It was the 3 pole Commander breakers that lost their certification that precipitated the discontinuation of the whole panel line. 1 & 2 pole breakers were not problem and they are still being manufactured. The panels that are "a bonfire waiting to happen" are the Federal stab-lok panels. Those things never should have seen the light of day. If I bought a place with one of them, I'd make it a high priority to change it out for a real panel.

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            • #36

              Re: Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

              Originally posted by drzaius View Post
              It was the 3 pole Commander breakers that lost their certification that precipitated the discontinuation of the whole panel line. 1 & 2 pole breakers were not problem and they are still being manufactured. The panels that are "a bonfire waiting to happen" are the Federal stab-lok panels. Those things never should have seen the light of day. If I bought a place with one of them, I'd make it a high priority to change it out for a real panel.
              In over 20 years the only panel I have seen burnt up was a Cutler Hammer. Not one Federal

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              • #37

                Re: Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

                Originally posted by klassenl View Post

                In over 20 years the only panel I have seen burnt up was a Cutler Hammer. Not one Federal
                My bonfire comment was hyperbole, of course. I've never seen a panel burned up, but I've seen more Federal panels than I can count (probably in the hundreds) with burned buss bars where the breakers stab in. It's great entertainment to put your ear close, give a Federal panel a whack with your hand and listen for the arcing between breakers & busses. Not to mention breakers actually falling out when the panel cover is removed. I've only seen a handful of those issues in other panels.

                Nothing really wrong with Federal bolt-in panels though.

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                • #38

                  Re: Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

                  In Nova Scotia all circuits in a residence must be arc fault. I did a kitchen 3 years ago there in a new house and luckily the electrician temporarily installed a regular circuit breaker so I could use my miter saw. Apparently there is a move afoot to have the same requirement in Ontario.

                  Brian
                  If your dreams don't scare you, you are not dreaming big enough

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                  • #39

                    Re: Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

                    Originally posted by Brian @ Muir View Post
                    In Nova Scotia all circuits in a residence must be arc fault. I did a kitchen 3 years ago there in a new house and luckily the electrician temporarily installed a regular circuit breaker so I could use my miter saw. Apparently there is a move afoot to have the same requirement in Ontario.

                    Brian
                    All circuits? CEC only requires AFCIs on all receptacle circuits, with a few specific exceptions.

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                    • #40

                      Re: Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

                      Yes all circuits, I didn’t even know such a thing existed and couldn’t figure out why the circuit breaker kept popping when I tried to use my miter saw. I ran an extension cord from the barn and when the electrician showed up is when I found out about arc faults and he explained the requirement. Maybe it’s like building codes, I find that different areas have different interpretations.
                      this was a good thread , I learnt a lot.

                      Brian
                      If your dreams don't scare you, you are not dreaming big enough

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                      • #41

                        Re: Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

                        In Ontario smoke detectors must NOT be on AFCI or GFCI. They must work no matter what.
                        iamtooler likes this.

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                        • #42

                          Re: Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

                          Originally posted by Brian @ Muir View Post
                          Yes all circuits, I didn’t even know such a thing existed and couldn’t figure out why the circuit breaker kept popping when I tried to use my miter saw. I ran an extension cord from the barn and when the electrician showed up is when I found out about arc faults and he explained the requirement. Maybe it’s like building codes, I find that different areas have different interpretations.
                          this was a good thread , I learnt a lot.

                          Brian
                          Each province, when adopting the CEC, has their own revisions that they use. I'm very surprised they allow them on smoke alarms & fridge receptacles.

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                          • #43

                            Re: Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

                            So, if I were planning to add 30 LED soffit pot lights that were only 20W each, it would be OK on a single circuit?
                            For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
                            Sir Isaac Newton.

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                            • #44

                              Re: Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

                              Doesn't matter what the load it is not to exceed 80% of the capacity of the wire. So it depends on amp draw and wire size and length of wire.
                              Bob just past Ayr

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                              • #45

                                Re: Led Pot lights... still count individual lamps to total max 12?

                                Originally posted by Matt Matt View Post
                                So, if I were planning to add 30 LED soffit pot lights that were only 20W each, it would be OK on a single circuit?
                                As long as they're not the type that has a screw shell socket that will accept higher wattage lamps. A 20W pot it really big. Are they going into some very high soffits?

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