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  • #46

    Re: GFCI's

    I agree with Dave K's response above. Or just spend the money and put in a ground fault circuit breaker. But either way it should be inspected.

    In my main panel I have a 60 amp ground fault circuit breaker feeding a sub panel going to my hot tub. The sub panel has one double breaker that feeds the hot tub and two breakers that feed 2 outlet receptacles. If I remember correctly the breaker cost me $170, 10 years ago.

    Oh wow, they are only $279 now. https://www.homedepot.ca/product/sie...ker/1000118892
    Last edited by Matt Matt; 04-07-2021, 01:41 AM.
    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
    Sir Isaac Newton.

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    • #47

      Re: GFCI's

      Originally posted by dave_k View Post
      Unless you are a Master electrician or electrical engineer stick to the prescriptive code and listed devices. Don't even argue about it because someone may read what you wrote and take it as gospel without reading further or doing due diligence. Back to the OP .... you can't wire a GFIC as a split receptacle period. if you want 2 GFCI's on separate circuits in a bathroom install 2 GFIC's .... after you pull a homeowners permit and get it inspected of course.

      If you want to do DIY wiring buy "The House Wiring Guide by PS Knight and stick to it then get your work inspected. https://psknight.com/
      I agree with all of the above.

      A bit of digression here. PS Knight is an interesting company. They have been involved in a pi55ing match with CSA for years over the outrageous price of the CEC Part 1 publications, which I believe it's as much a principle thing as financial. They sell a virtually word for word copy for well under half the price CSA does. Of course, CSA has their knickers in a right twist over this & there has been lots of legal activity over it. As a long time customer of CSA, I have mixed feelings about them. They put out good product, but all their services, publications, education, etc. are so overpriced that I only buy from them what I can't get anywhere else.

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      • #48

        Re: GFCI's

        Ok, maybe it's my fault for not explaining things properly. The two outlets are indeed splits, using 14/3 wire. The breakers feeding each split receptacle are two adjacent single pole breakers but have been joined together by these metal tie clips over the toggle switches of the breaker (for lack of a better description) that allows them to act as a single 2-pole breaker. Now, I don't know how compliant that is with current codes but they used to be very common. In fact you used to be able to buy these metal clips separately from the breakers for just that purpose. Some breaker manufacturers used pins that went into holes in the switches of the breakers that did the same thing. On these breakers that "metal tie" is removable, separating them back into two separate single pole breakers which allows me to disconnect one of the two positives (either the red or the black) and essentially turning it into a 14/2 15amp circuit to which I can connect a GFCI to. Yeah, one breaker goes unused but it also gives me the chance of using the unused breaker if one is indeed a weak breaker. Hope that makes things a bit more clear.

        Thanks, Mark

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        • #49

          Re: GFCI's

          The problem with the above solution is that it leaves the kitchen counter receptacles non-compliant. He will only have half the power available for use.

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          • #50

            Re: GFCI's

            Hello Frank, whereas I question the "non-compliant " part of your statement, I agree it's not exactly what is best. Given the outlets proximity to the sink I think it's better to convert them to GFCI outlets at 15amps and dealing with tripping a breaker rather than the potential alternative of risking him getting a potentially critical shock because of the water hazard. As I said, he shows very definite signs of dementia and, well, his actions aren't really in line with things that you or I would think as standard or usual practices when it comes to using appliances around potential water hazards, if you get my drift.

            Thanks for your input:

            Mark
            ThePracticalPeasant likes this.

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            • #51

              Re: GFCI's

              Whether you question the compliance or not is irrelevant; code is code. I didn't make up the rules. Now, back to solving the problem. You said there is already a problem with nuisance tripping, which will only get worse if you remove half the circuits. Then he's gonna be stringing extension cords all over to get his appliances working.

              The solution is to install a small sub-panel to feed those 2 split circuits with a couple of 2 pole GFCI breakers to feed those receptacles. Sure, it's going to cost a few hundred dollars, but better that than a Mickey Mouse kludge that will eliminate one hazard only to introduce others.
              Jerome likes this.

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              • #52

                Re: GFCI's

                Originally posted by Wooden Heart View Post
                Yeah, one breaker goes unused but it also gives me the chance of using the unused breaker if one is indeed a weak breaker. Hope that makes things a bit more clear.

                Thanks, Mark
                If you're tripping breakers on your kitchen splits then something is wrong with the circuit. It could be one of the breakers ... it could be a faulty appliance .... it could be a short. You won't know until you troubleshoot the circuit.

                I am NOT AN ELECTRICIAN nor do I pretend to be one on the internet however would it not make sense to learn why you're tripping breakers and fix the problem rather than trying to circumvent the problem?

                You could start with testing the circuits with a $10 plug in circuit tester to see if the circuit is properly grounded and no loose neutrals.

                If you have a clamp meter you could run an appliance that trips the breaker with the meter attached to the cord to see what amperage it's drawing.

                You could run the same appliance only this time clamp the meter to the circuit as it leaves the panel to see if you're getting the same draw.

                Last you could buy a new breaker shut down the main breaker, test for voltage then if it's safe install it to see if indeed the breaker was the problem.
                ThePracticalPeasant likes this.

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