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Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

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  • Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

    Hello,

    The home is close to 11 years old. Concrete foundation walls are fine. I am in the process of finishing the basement and now working in the area of a small load bearing wood frame wall. This frame extends out from the foundation wall about 5 ft, another similar frame about 4.5 ft away and parallel. The frame is 2 * 6 wood, outside studs are doubled, sitting on a bottom plate that is bolted down on concrete, double top plates. As I am now working in this area where measurements are needed, I am concerned about the obvious buckling of the outside studs. These curve out about .5 in. and the joist over-head is about .3/4 lower. Part of that is attributed to a slope in the floor toward the drain. I also noticed that the nails holding the double studs are pulled up and into the wood by approx .25 in. The other frame structure has a slight bend in the outside stud. The double studs that show the most buckling are providing support for a joist structure consisting of the following:
    A double joist that spans from the opposite wall (house width is about 16ft).
    Single joists from the mentioned double joist that span 8 ft to a steel beam.

    Above this area is a tiled floor both in the kitchen and the bathroom. No cracks in walls, tiles, ceiling or baseboard molding is present.

    This area between the two wood frames will become a closet. I plan on framing the outside for a door. Before I go through this effort, should I be considering some reinforcement? What kind of business will provide this service or a master carpenter be good enough.
    Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Mark
    Last edited by garabaldi; 12-19-2011, 05:11 PM. Reason: Spelling and Grammer

  • #2

    Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

    Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

    Mark, your description is very precise, but I'm still having trouble picturing it. Any chance of posting a pic?

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    • #3

      Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

      Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

      Not quite getting the pic. but after 11 yrs. shouldn't be falling down any time soon. If the walls your mentioning are 2x6 studs 16" centers with no center blocking they will have bowed within the first few mons. of construction.

      Bill R.

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      • #4

        Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

        Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

        What is your dirt like? I can only speak about how we build basements in Regina. We are on gumbo, a very heavy clay soil. Our houses sink or our basement floors rise. Therefore the distance between the basement floor and joists decreases over time and can cause buckling.

        All of our load bearing supports use teleposts that need to adjustment occasionally. Usually when the doors upstairs no longer shut properly or the walls start cracking. All of our walls in the basements are designed as floating walls. The wall is build about 1" shorter than it needs to be and is set tight against the top or bottom. The other end floats, held in place by long nails driven through the holes in the plate into the floor or joists. Then as the soil shifts, this space will gradually decrease without causing issues with the wall.

        I've never seen any of the DIY shows feature this type of construction so maybe it is not needed with Ontario soil.
        the other Ken
        ------
        "Each flitch, each board, each plant can have only one ideal use. The woodworker, applying a thousand skills, must find that ideal use and then shape the wood to realize its true potential" - George Nakashima

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        • #5

          Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

          Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

          Originally posted by garabaldi View Post
          Before I go through this effort, should I be considering some reinforcement?
          If you do any alterations you have to make sure all existing loads and any new loads are brought to ground with properly sized members and terminate in a properly sized footing. I can't tell from your post if you need any remedial work on the existing structure. If you do have to do remedial work it's a very good ideal to make sure that this is dealt with before investing in any new work to your home.

          Originally posted by garabaldi View Post
          What kind of business will provide this service or a master carpenter be good enough.
          There are contractors that specialize in residential renovations and additions. If you don't have a reliable source for finding a contractor try the contractor sales desk at a local lumber yard (not Home Depot but a real lumber yard)

          Any good carpenter should be capable of doing this work. In Canada there is no such thing as a "master carpenter" anyone claiming this title have givin it to themselves. We have journeymen carpenters and red seal journeymen carpenters who hold interprovincial certificates

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          • #6

            Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

            Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

            Originally posted by Bill R. View Post
            Not quite getting the pic. but after 11 yrs. shouldn't be falling down any time soon. If the walls your mentioning are 2x6 studs 16" centers with no center blocking they will have bowed within the first few mons. of construction.
            If I am getting the right picture from your description, you likely don't need to worry about it collapsing. If it doesn't have blocking at mid-height installed, then put it in. Loadbearing studs, no matter if they are 2x4, 2x6, or 2x8 will buckle in the weak axis (1 1/2") By installing blocking you are minimizing the effective length of the stud, thereby reducing the risk of buckling. Off hand, I seem to recall that the O.B.C. requirement for blocking in loadbearing walls is at 3'-11" o.c. vertically.

            As for the bow that is already there? If you are really concerned about it, sister up an additional 2x6 next to the end studs within the wall for a little insurance. Then shim it all out back to plumb and cover it up with drywall.

            Cheers,

            Ben

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            • #7

              Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

              Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

              On most houses the walls generally bow out a bit on the outside and that because when framers build the walls they keep the crown facing outwards . That is standard practice .

              Comment


              • #8

                Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                I must appologize for neglecting this thread. I was sure that I had my profile configured to notify me if there were any replies and thus forgot about it. Since the original posting, I have worked around this problem area and the time has now arrived. I was about to do that today but the buckling is very noticeable. I cannot say if the problem has worsened but did carefully measure out. I estimate that the maximum curve in, from the vertical iSupport01.jpgs about 1 inch.
                I appreciate all the replies and will carefully read each and every one. The following pictures should complete the worded description.
                Support02.jpg

                Comment


                • #9

                  Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                  Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                  Thanks for the reply and I apologize for not replying sooner. Images have been posted.

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                    Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                    I am located North of Toronto in Vaughan which used to be farm land but below grade is suppose to be quite solid. So far, no cracks on the main or second floor, all doors are fine, except for the bathroom door immediately above the area in question. It sticks a little in the summer.

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                      Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                      Thanks for the info. My alterations have not affected the existing loads or added new loads. If this area in question does require some work, I can easily undo my alternations. I left this part to the very end, which is where I am right now. So, if the studs are buckling and the area requires some reinforcement, some kind of hydraulic hoist will need to be used, while the studs are replaced? A carpenter can do this kind of work?

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                        Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                        Ha! Thanks. I actually did install a sister about 4 months ago. I will look into the blocking since I have not completely dry walled the area. The buckling is only on the end studs. The others are fine.

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                          Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                          While blocking will surely help, I am not very fond of the third stud from the white pipe (vac?).
                          What I don't like about it is a large knot which appears to be almost in the center of the buckle. Knots like that seriously weaken the stud. I would either replace it, or double it with another 2by using a few bolts.
                          In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                            Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                            Originally posted by darius View Post
                            While blocking will surely help, I am not very fond of the third stud from the white pipe (vac?).
                            What I don't like about it is a large knot which appears to be almost in the center of the buckle. Knots like that seriously weaken the stud. I would either replace it, or double it with another 2by using a few bolts.
                            That third stud is not part of the support structure and the knot is not too deep. That third stud is the beginning of a short wall that I have added. There is no load on it at all. The load bearing wall ends with the two curved 2 x 6 studs that the white vacuum pipe is attached to. Although it appears to curve in the photo, that third stud is very straight vertically.

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                              Re: Basement load bearing wood frame buckling

                              looks like what others said then, a little bracing will help a lot
                              In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion

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