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  • #76

    Re: Our Covid-19 Experiences

    [QUOTE=Doug G;n1328898]

    Seems the CDC disagrees with your first statement. This is from the CDC website. "COVID-19 vaccines help our bodies develop immunity to the virus that causes COVID-19 without us having to get the illness."
    [URL]https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/

    Doug

    I will amend my statement on immunity and concede some immunity will be created but the exact percentage will be determined sometime in the future. I am by no means anti vaccine having acquired the first shot 1 week ago. However I remain concerned with the constant cautions being issued on the various shots and who should get which one. Watched an interview this evening with a director of NACL explaining the term of preferred being given to one vaccine over another and people who had the not preferred one should be concerned but not overly so, very reassuring. People are concerned about the virus and should not have to worry about the supposed cure also .

    Personally as a few others have stated here my risk of contacting covid is relatively low as my bubble is miniscule, wear a mask while out, distance , and I am in very good health. When you look at the health issues this virus preys on , I have none of the top 15. That is why good health is your best vaccine, yes there has been cases but the amount of very healthy people being seriously impacted is a small blip on the data. When our Health Minister calls Vitamin D fake news for its effectiveness in promoting a strong immune system and as a result another layer of armor against Covid, when every doctor I've seen asks if I'm taking it and what dose, it does not inspire confidence in her .

    People are getting pissed off and its not just the lunatic fringe you laugh at on TV, quite a large rally in Montreal and I don't believe they all are conspiracy theorists. Governments of all stripes have failed miserably, the population has failed its fellow citizens miserably, the supposed caring generation has been shown to be not so caring as the vast majority of active cases in Ottawa are in the under 50 group with the biggest chunk in the under 30s. Silent version of a FU . Eventually the curve will get flattened, 14 days has turned into 400 but it will get beaten down, after all if China can get it under 20 cases a day and basically no deaths in a month surely we can figure this out eventually.

    Bill
    Troglodyte and beakie like this.

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    • #77

      Re: Our Covid-19 Experiences

      Originally posted by billsm View Post
      I will amend my statement on immunity and concede some immunity will be created but the exact percentage will be determined sometime in the future. I am by no means anti vaccine having acquired the first shot 1 week ago.

      ...

      Eventually the curve will get flattened, 14 days has turned into 400 but it will get beaten down, after all if China can get it under 20 cases a day and basically no deaths in a month surely we can figure this out eventually.

      Bill
      Great post.
      [insert something witty here]

      Comment


      • #78

        Re: Our Covid-19 Experiences

        Bill, I think the "some immunity" is around 95%, pretty good odds. I think the constant cautions are are a case of being overly cautious but I'm no expert.
        Again from the CDC " Over 230 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through April 26, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 3,848 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS."
        https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...se-events.html
        I did a quick google search and did not come up with any cases worldwide where the cause of death was attributed to any of the vaccines, has anyone found any cases?

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        • #79

          Re: Our Covid-19 Experiences

          Doug , the numbers you quote all reflect following the manufacturers recommended dose interval. We won't know our true numbers for a few more months as we are in uncharted territory.

          Bill

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          • #80

            Re: Our Covid-19 Experiences

            Bill, true, one of the sites I found was results for Ontario. Most of the cases may be after only one dose. Let's hope that trend continues after two doses. My wife and I have had one dose of the Pfizer vaccine, no side effects. Stay safe.

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            • #81

              Re: Our Covid-19 Experiences

              Had my first shot today and felt a little feverish for about an hour about 2 hours after the shot. But now its not till august that I get the second shot.
              Steve The Drill Sergeant
              Check out MyShopNotes on YouTube.

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              • #82

                Re: Our Covid-19 Experiences

                Originally posted by Doug G View Post
                Bill, true, one of the sites I found was results for Ontario. Most of the cases may be after only one dose. Let's hope that trend continues after two doses. My wife and I have had one dose of the Pfizer vaccine, no side effects. Stay safe.
                Considering some of the early results out of the UK, the longer interval most/all of the provinces are choosing to use for some of the two shot varieties may provide a better response. Without the longer term data available, the shorter interval chosen by the manufacturer is just a safe guess anyway. Time will tell, but of course decision making regarding individuals is different than epidemiological decision making.
                Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club.

                http://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

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                • #83

                  Re: Our Covid-19 Experiences

                  I haven't signed up for mine yet.

                  I wouldn't say I'm vaccine hesitant. But part of my delay is definitely a little bit of concern. As posted above, this was brought to market after an unprecedented expedited testing process, and it's simply not as well tested or researched as drugs usually are. I think we have enough data to say that it's more than likely safe, and I know that in my head, but I'd be lying if I said that part of me didn't feel just that little bit better taking a wait and see approach. But that's just a small part, I'd say about 20%.

                  A larger concern, about 40%, is, I'm not sure what you'd call this, but maybe a typical Canadian feeling of not cutting in line? I have no problem with other people getting it, but as I said before, I consider myself low risk. So long as I keep hearing stories of high risk people still waiting for shots they desperately want, I would feel pretty guilty taking one for myself.

                  What's that, 60% total, so the remaining 40% is that I've just been too darn busy. If it was like I hear it is in America, where they can give you the jab at the door when you stop at the beer store, then sure, it would be easy to fit it in. But with the whole appointment and booking process they have now, we'll, maybe it wouldn't be that big a deal in the end, but right now in the middle of the spring busy season, it feels like just one more ball I don't have hands to juggle.

                  I'll probably get it later this summer, when everyone else is done and the shots are easier to get. But then again, maybe the pandemic wont be enough of a concern by then?

                  ​​​

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                  • #84

                    Re: Our Covid-19 Experiences

                    Originally posted by billsm View Post


                    When our Health Minister calls Vitamin D fake news for its effectiveness in promoting a strong immune system and as a result another layer of armor against Covid, when every doctor I've seen asks if I'm taking it and what dose, it does not inspire confidence in her .

                    Bill
                    You'd benefit from some research beyond the right wing rags, this is not what she did. This conversation was with the whacko Derek Sloan who seems to spend a lot of time in some disturbing, conspiratorial and fringe areas....
                    Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club.

                    http://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

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                    • #85

                      Re: Our Covid-19 Experiences

                      Originally posted by timberframe View Post

                      You'd benefit from some research beyond the right wing rags, this is not what she did. This conversation was with the whacko Derek Sloan who seems to spend a lot of time in some disturbing, conspiratorial and fringe areas....
                      Did not know you now consider Hansard a right wing rag, but hey there is one hiding behind every tree. Here is the exchange .


                      Oral Questions

                      April 22nd, 2021 / 3:05 p.m.

                      Independent


                      Derek Sloan Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

                      Mr. Speaker, the health minister has previously questioned my concern for science, and today I return the favour.

                      At least 75 recent studies have shown that optimal vitamin D levels significantly reduce susceptibility to COVID-19 and significantly improve health outcomes if people do get infected. It has been documented for decades that Canadians have sub-optimal vitamin D levels, especially during winter.

                      Could the minister explain why Health Canada's website states that most Canadians are getting enough vitamin D, and does not actively recommend supplementing?

                      LINKS & SHARING
                      AS SPOKEN

                      HealthOral Questions

                      3:05 p.m.

                      Thunder Bay—Superior NorthOntario

                      Liberal


                      Patty Hajdu Minister of Health

                      Mr. Speaker, I would encourage the member opposite to not fall prey to the myriad of fake news articles that are circulating around the Internet about ways people could protect themselves from COVID, and trust that the Public Health Agency of Canada only puts science-based credible documents up, guided, of course, by our Chief Public Health Officer, Dr. Tam and the many scientists that work for us.

                      What Canadians need now is trust. They need to be able to trust in the information that their elected officials are sharing. I would urge the member to get his sources from credible sites.

                      Bill

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                      • #86

                        Re: Our Covid-19 Experiences

                        Originally posted by billsm View Post

                        Did not know you now consider Hansard a right wing rag, but hey there is one hiding behind every tree. Here is the exchange .

                        I'm not sure what exactly it is that you object to in the Minister's response. There are a myriad of fake news articles about how people can protect themselves. The Public Health Agency does review material and makes recommendations that are backed up by science-based studies.

                        There are indeed a number of studies that find correlation between vitamin D deficiency and COVID prevalence/severity etc. Correlation, not causation. There is also a huge correlation between individuals with significant RRSP investments and COVID. And individuals who own BMW's, Lexus'es being more likely to contract or die from COVID.

                        Does having a significant RRSP investment make you more susceptible to COVID? Does owning a BMW? No, but being older does make you more susceptible. Older people are also more likely to have a significant RRSP investment, or a BMW. Correlation, not causation.

                        Vitamin D deficiency has correlation to a large number of disease vectors, and the scientific consensus is that most (but not all) of those relationships are likely due to the fact that older people are statistically more likely to have a vitamin D deficiency.

                        Double-blind studies that use supplements of vitamin D and placebo's, applied to random subsets of the adult population, do not find correlation (Can vitamin D protect against the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)? - Mayo Clinic).

                        Still, if you don't drink milk (fortified with Vitamin D), eat egg yolks or fatty fish, then you should be getting a vitamin D supplement.

                        You should also wear a mask, social distance, get the vaccine, and take a few minutes to verify 'theories and advice' before relaying them to the general public.

                        Last edited by Troglodyte; 05-04-2021, 08:34 AM.
                        timberframe and Randy in Calgary like this.
                        “By All means read what the experts have to say. Just don’t let it get in the way of your woodworking.” John Brown (1932–2008), Welsh stick chairmaker

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                        • #87

                          Re: Our Covid-19 Experiences

                          He simply asked that she recommend that the optimal doses be taken as a prevention, I had 2 doctors recommend more than the optimal amount after surgery last year. A simple reiteration of the Health Canada guideline would have satisfied the questioner , but a political attack was deemed the best avenue. I merely suggest that anything taken with medical approval to boost an immune system should be a no brainer, whether it will directly protect against Covid will be studied and researched further. Good health is one of the best defences against this , maybe if politicians put away the talking points and used some common sense the lack of trust they bemoan might slowly be regained.

                          Bill

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                          • #88

                            Re: Our Covid-19 Experiences

                            Originally posted by billsm View Post
                            He simply asked that she recommend that the optimal doses be taken as a prevention, I had 2 doctors recommend more than the optimal amount after surgery last year. A simple reiteration of the Health Canada guideline would have satisfied the questioner , but a political attack was deemed the best avenue. I merely suggest that anything taken with medical approval to boost an immune system should be a no brainer, whether it will directly protect against Covid will be studied and researched further. Good health is one of the best defences against this , maybe if politicians put away the talking points and used some common sense the lack of trust they bemoan might slowly be regained.

                            Bill
                            Derek raised the point solely as a political attack, to make it seem as if PHAC was withholding advice for some unknown purpose and to build on the narrative that the liberals aren't handling the pandemic well. He had time to speak on any topic, he could have used it to advance recommendations and/or advice that would be helpful to control the pandemic. He didn't. Unfortunately, politicians of all stripes are not doing anywhere near enough to put aside their political affiliations.

                            There isn't demonstrable scientific evidence that vitamin D plays a role in preventing COVID.

                            Additionally, putting aside our viewpoints, the health agency is taking actions to protect the entire community. They are well aware that there are significant portions of the population that are desperate to not have to wear masks, to avoid getting the vaccine, and to end social distancing. Placing a recommendation for vitamin D provides those individuals the cover to say "well I am taking vitamin D supplements, good enough, I don't need to wear a mask and I don't need to take the vaccine." This is literally what happened with hydroxychloroquine.
                            timberframe likes this.
                            “By All means read what the experts have to say. Just don’t let it get in the way of your woodworking.” John Brown (1932–2008), Welsh stick chairmaker

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                            • #89

                              Re: Our Covid-19 Experiences

                              Originally posted by billsm View Post
                              He simply asked that she recommend that the optimal doses be taken as a prevention, I had 2 doctors recommend more than the optimal amount after surgery last year. A simple reiteration of the Health Canada guideline would have satisfied the questioner , but a political attack was deemed the best avenue. I merely suggest that anything taken with medical approval to boost an immune system should be a no brainer, whether it will directly protect against Covid will be studied and researched further. Good health is one of the best defences against this , maybe if politicians put away the talking points and used some common sense the lack of trust they bemoan might slowly be regained.

                              Bill

                              "but a political attack was deemed the best avenue."

                              One can not label it a political attack if it originates from the left, any such "attack" is simply a misunderatanding on the other sides part... sometimes we misunderstand the subtle difference in or shade of meaning, expression, or sound of what others say.
                              That way when they say something wrong/incorrect/untrue/etc, it can easily be explained as a mistake on our part to fully understand what they meant, when they say things. It' not their fault that others took what they said at face value.


                              You have to take your audience into account Bill.

                              You're sources have already been dismissed as a right winged rag, you need to start reading "acceptable" rags so that you can get in line with their thinking. Keep in mind these are the same people supporting the newest contraversial bill of determining what you can say/see online. The sooner we all learn to read and accept their rags/gospels, the easier it will be to fall inline with what they need/want from us.

                              Originally posted by beakie View Post
                              You either agree, or you're wrong.
                              There's no place for discussion because "my proof is irrefutable". So depending which side you're on, you're either smart/right or dumb/wrong.

                              This topic or any other.

                              some will feign discussion, to continue the charade of open mindedness.




                              [insert something witty here]

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                              • #90

                                Re: Our Covid-19 Experiences

                                Originally posted by beakie View Post
                                One can not label it a political attack if it originates from the left, any such "attack" is simply a misunderatanding on the other sides part.
                                Much of what is said in our political chambers is political attacks, political grandstanding, and nonsense. All sides, liberal, conservative, NDP, green, bloc, etc etc.

                                This thread has actually been surprising in the integrity of conversation and respecting other peoples views and their right to have those views (though not all posts).

                                There's already a half dozen posts or so in this very thread that state this. I think most of us (not all though) are responding to all posts based on the substance of the post as opposed to the tribalism of the post.

                                For instance, my last post (before yours was posted) specifically indicated politicians need to drop their tribalism. After that I responded to the substance of the vitamin D statement; not the tribes that are advancing those talking points.
                                timberframe likes this.
                                “By All means read what the experts have to say. Just don’t let it get in the way of your woodworking.” John Brown (1932–2008), Welsh stick chairmaker

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