Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

    Given the current uproar over the Grand Poohbahs' return to Canada, I thought this was a good one.


    cartoon.jpg
    If women don't find you handsome, they can sure find you handy. Red Green

  • #2

    Re: Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

    Re: Editorial cartoon

    I have yet to hear anybody in support of his Lordships return. Send him to GB, we don't want him here.

    Comment


    • #3

      Re: Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

      Re: Editorial cartoon

      meh.......

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

        Re: Editorial cartoon

        Originally posted by red_langford View Post
        I have yet to hear anybody in support of his Lordships return. Send him to GB, we don't want him here.
        I agree. I can't imagine the Americans welcoming somebody back with open arms after they renounced their American citizenship to be some dork lord. Is Cdn citizenship something that you can take or leave however it suits your purpose? Perhaps yes, given all the people like the Hong Kongers who took out Cdn citizenship "just in case the takeover by China goes wrong" and then moved back to HK to see how it goes.

        Unfortunately, it appears that in the Ottawa area at least, the opinion is not totally one-sided. An informal CTV Ottawa news pole shows 61% for keeping him out and 39% for letting him back in.

        billh

        Comment


        • #5

          Re: Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

          Re: Editorial cartoon

          Two things:

          1st: He HAD to renounce his Canadian Citizenship....his family has been here for 5 generations, but he was also offered the lordship. He applied for dual citizenship, but he was maliciously denied by a certain someone who had a bone to pick (Jean Chretien)

          2nd: I'm hopefull that his return to Canada will result in him putting his considerable expertise into starting a new company (or more) that will result in jobs for Canadians.
          I dream of a better world, one where chickens can cross roads without having their motives questioned.

          Comment


          • #6

            Re: Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

            Re: Editorial cartoon

            Originally posted by Ryan Shervill View Post
            Two things:

            1st: He HAD to renounce his Canadian Citizenship....his family has been here for 5 generations, but he was also offered the lordship. He applied for dual citizenship, but he was maliciously denied by a certain someone who had a bone to pick (Jean Chretien)

            2nd: I'm hopefull that his return to Canada will result in him putting his considerable expertise into starting a new company (or more) that will result in jobs for Canadians.
            took the words out of my mouth.

            people get stuck on the fact that he renounced his citizenship, as if it was a case where he got up one morning and was all like "man, I just HATE that canada!!! What a useless waste of a nation!! I think I'll renounce them just out of spite!" or something like that!

            He was offered a very high British honour, and as a citizen of the common wealth he should have been freely allowed to accept it. Chretien's meddling in that affair was nothing but personal and partisan. Had Black been a liberal party supporter, the PMO would have never been anywhere near that situation. Black's response was, admittedly, a bad one, reminding me a bit of a "fine, I'll take my ball and go!" reaction, so I don't hold Black entirely blameless, but for certain he was baited and provoked by Chretien quite unfairly, and so in the end I won't hold it against black.

            The bottom line is this: if you have two people applying for entrance to canada, I want to know in 5 year's time which one will be mooching off of the system, and which one will have started up a company that is now giving jobs to other canadians and enabling them to work and earn a living. I want to let in that second kind, and I'm pretty sure that, whatever else Black is (i.e. a bit pompous) he's definitely the second kind of applicant.

            Comment


            • #7

              Re: Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

              Re: Editorial cartoon

              He also seems to have a propensity for taking that which isn't his to take, as well as ignoring court orders and video cameras.

              The best thing about him coming back is that it will yield some other fodder for the mills aside from Rob Ford......Rod.
              Work is the curse of the riding class.

              Comment


              • #8

                Re: Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

                Re: Editorial cartoon

                I don't think people should be malicious and judgmental. He is welcome in my Canada.
                -------
                Cheers,
                --Rick

                Comment


                • #9

                  Re: Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

                  Re: Editorial cartoon

                  Oh yeah, create jobs. At 60 something he is not going to do nothing but spend his stolen money and leach off the health care system.

                  Chretien's involvement in citizenship matters is kind of far fetched don't you think? I suppose it is possible, and likely he didn't like Black but I find it hard to believe the PM is calling up civil servants to tell them how to do their job.

                  If you chose to renounce your citizenship for the sake of vanity, and yes it was nothing more than vanity, you don't deserve it back when things go awry. Let's not forget he is a convicted felon.

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

                    Re: Editorial cartoon

                    I'm hopefull that his return to Canada will result in him putting his considerable expertise into starting a new company (or more) that will result in jobs for Canadians

                    Oh goody, another potential pension plan to raid. Momma needs a new pair of shoes. For once I am actually cheering the US Revenue to get their share.
                    If women don't find you handsome, they can sure find you handy. Red Green

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Re: Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

                      Re: Editorial cartoon

                      Yeah....those multi-millionaires coming here to milk public healthcare is becoming a problem ;)

                      And for the record, there are all kinds of 60 yr old people running/starting/expanding successfull companies. In fact, I'd wager that many many fortune 500 companies have a whole lot of grey hair at the board meetings

                      Even if he/his children dont start a new company, I'm just glad we are getting a new Canadian that can pay his own way.

                      Originally posted by red_langford View Post
                      Oh yeah, create jobs. At 60 something he is not going to do nothing but spend his stolen money and leach off the health care system.

                      Chretien's involvement in citizenship matters is kind of far fetched don't you think? I suppose it is possible, and likely he didn't like Black but I find it hard to believe the PM is calling up civil servants to tell them how to do their job.

                      If you chose to renounce your citizenship for the sake of vanity, and yes it was nothing more than vanity, you don't deserve it back when things go awry. Let's not forget he is a convicted felon.
                      I dream of a better world, one where chickens can cross roads without having their motives questioned.

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        Re: Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

                        Re: Editorial cartoon

                        Originally posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
                        He also seems to have a propensity for taking that which isn't his to take, as well as ignoring court orders and video cameras.

                        The best thing about him coming back is that it will yield some other fodder for the mills aside from Rob Ford......Rod.
                        honestly though, if an american court sent you a letter ordering you, a canadian, in canada, what to do with your canadian papers in your canadian office, really, how much deference would you give that order? I don't deny he was being dishonest, but I'm still a little troubled about someone being prosecuted in america by an american court for something they did in canada that wasn't illegal under canadian laws. If other people didn't love to hate ol' black, I think they'd be more bothered by that too. My personal opinion, some people focus on the fact that he probably did do some shady business and so he probably did deserve some punishment, so they agree with the end, but they agree with that end so much that they don't notice that the means by which that end was reached were really very questionable.

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Re: Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

                          Re: Editorial cartoon

                          He not a Canadian, he is a criminal, and his criminal record should mean that he should not be allowed entry.

                          We weere well rid of him and, now it appears that somehow if is going to be allowed back.

                          I am ashamed in whatever "powers that be" that have decided to allow this guy into Canada.
                          Cheers,
                          Frank

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Re: Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

                            Re: Editorial cartoon

                            In between innings of the ball game but a quick comment and a rhetorical question.

                            There has always been a number of perks to being rich and famous, thats just the way its always been. And the question, right now, would you trust this man with your life savings, or your pension funds? Back to the game.

                            PS Still a good cartoon.
                            If women don't find you handsome, they can sure find you handy. Red Green

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Re: Editorial cartoon: Conrad Black

                              Re: Editorial cartoon

                              Originally posted by Frank Pellow View Post
                              He not a Canadian, he is a criminal, and his criminal record should mean that he should not be allowed entry.

                              We were well rid of him and, now it appears that somehow if is going to be allowed back.

                              I am ashamed in whatever "powers that be" that have decided to allow this guy into Canada.
                              There are a lot of similar feelings I guess so I just picked this one from the group...

                              Yes he is now a criminal and a convict and he was charged under this law:
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honest_services_fraud

                              As I recall the US Attorney's office decided to interpret the law such that if other shareholders felt that you "did not do an honest day's work" for your pay -- you were a criminal. The catch was -- Who was to decide what was honest services?" ???? (Sort of like "Who watches the watcher?" -- if you think about it...)
                              Honest services fraud refers to a 28-word sentence of 18 U.S.C. § 1346 (the federal mail and wire fraud statute), added by the United States Congress in 1988,[1] which states: "For the purposes of this chapter, the term, scheme or artifice to defraud includes a scheme or artifice to deprive another of the intangible right of honest services."[2]

                              The statute has been applied by federal prosecutors in cases of public corruption as well as in cases in which private individuals breached a fiduciary duty to another. In the former, the courts notably have been divided on the question of whether a state law violation is necessary for honest services fraud to have occurred. In the latter, the courts notably have taken differing approaches to determining whether a private individual has committed honest services fraud – a test based on reasonably foreseeable economic harm and a test based on materiality. The statute, which has been a target of criticism, was given a narrow construction by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case of Skilling v. United States. In order to avoid finding the statute to be unconstitutionally vague, the Court interpreted the statute to only cover "fraudulent schemes to deprive another of honest services through bribes or kickbacks supplied by a third party who ha[s] not been deceived."[3]
                              Luckily for the US Att. he also decided to remove materials from his office and they got him on "obstruction of justice". Later when they realized the [honest services] law was very broad [and could be construed to apply to almost anything] and completely open to interpretation, he won "on appeal". ...but they still got him on obstruction of justice...


                              As for "who owns the money in a company?" -- that depends on controlling interest...


                              See here:
                              http://businesscasestudies.co.uk/bus...d-control.html


                              Like everything else, "controlling interest" and minority shareholder rights wax and wane in popularity and recognition...
                              The owner of a business is the person who owns the business - i.e. has put the financial capital into the business and takes out the profit. The controller of the business is the person that makes the management decisions. We can illustrate ownership and control in the following diagram:

                              [ See the link for the chart]

                              You can see that as a businesses structure becomes larger there is a tendency for the control of the organisation to become more widely spread between the owners and those that run the business on a day-to-day basis. This has been a particular issue in recent years where shareholders in a number of companies are less happy about the way businesses are being run on their behalf. Recent issues have involved directors pay and the ethical practices of some businesses. When directors pay themselves large sums while results of a company are not very impressive then shareholders are likely to take issue at the AGM and can vote out directors, if this is part of the constitution of a company. Shareholders will also try to influence the ethical practice of the businesses that they own.

                              The bottom line was that since he had the controlling interest -- he could do pretty much what he wanted -- just like any other corporation. Where someone succeeded was in convincing the US Attorney's office that fraud was involved. Maybe it was -- maybe it wasn't.

                              At one time I was asked to consult to the Hollinger Group -- for some reason I declined -- I can't recall all the circumstances -- but it was certainly not a concern about Conrad Black. But otherwise I have not done business with the company.

                              As for Conrad Black being allowed back, well worse will shortly be coming back.

                              Last edited by willr; 05-05-2012, 12:10 AM.
                              ---
                              Will

                              “There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.” —- Mark Twain

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X