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  • #16

    Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

    Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

    A quick link to Lowes. As Greg said available many places.

    https://www.lowes.ca/articles/whole-...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds

    fwiw
    ---
    Will

    “There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.” —- Mark Twain

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    • #17

      Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

      Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

      Originally posted by willr View Post
      A quick link to Lowes. As Greg said available many places.

      https://www.lowes.ca/articles/whole-...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds

      fwiw

      Willr, My Dad is going to look at them at the wholesale today, Not sure I want to line Mikey's pockets with buying his endorsed products, he sold himself out long ago.
      sigpicToday's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut, that held its ground.

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      • #18

        Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

        Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

        Originally posted by Mark in Burlington View Post
        Willr, My Dad is going to look at them at the wholesale today, Not sure I want to line Mikey's pockets with buying his endorsed products, he sold himself out long ago.
        It was more about pointing people to a reference so they could look further.

        Once people know what to look for they can find what they want. I caught the bit about your dad -- other people nay need some help on what to look for and where.


        Lining Mikey's pockets with his two cents might have saved you a few thou $$$ -- it's all relative -- eh?

        Cheers.
        ---
        Will

        “There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.” —- Mark Twain

        Comment


        • #19

          Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

          Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

          Originally posted by willr View Post
          Lining Mikey's pockets with his two cents might have saved you a few thou $$$ -- it's all relative -- eh?

          Cheers.
          Hindsight is 20/20 eh? I had surge protection on computers/TV but you don't think about all the other electronics in the home now. I have lived here 14 years without a problem to date.
          I know of only a few people as I am sure many on the forum don't have whole home protected, so thanks for being so kind in pointing that out eh?

          There are lots of alternatives to what Mikey endorsed.
          sigpicToday's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut, that held its ground.

          Comment


          • #20

            Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

            Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

            Originally posted by Mark in Burlington View Post
            I know of only a few people as I am sure many on the forum don't have whole home protected, so thanks for being so kind in pointing that out eh?
            Real classy eh?

            Anyway, Mark I'm sorry this happened to you, it must really suck. Let me know if there's anything I can do. I have a good sized generator if you think it might come in handy, perhaps if you have to disconnect the whole house for a while to to any upgrades you can run a few critical things in the house. Just let me know,

            Brent
            Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club.

            http://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

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            • #21

              Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

              Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

              Oh that sucks!

              The only comment that the inspector had, with my work, at the new shop, and he was clear that it was personal advice, not code compliance, was to protect my LED lights with a surge protector. He also stated that they are a one time protection, and that he has two backups, on the shelf, for his own house.

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              • #22

                Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                Originally posted by Mark in Burlington View Post
                Hindsight is 20/20 eh? I had surge protection on computers/TV but you don't think about all the other electronics in the home now. I have lived here 14 years without a problem to date.
                I know of only a few people as I am sure many on the forum don't have whole home protected, so thanks for being so kind in pointing that out eh?

                There are lots of alternatives to what Mikey endorsed.
                I have posted previously on this issue many times in the past, some recently. I have pointed out the need for adequate UPS (with AC filtering), grounding and electrical protection systems. I have also done this kind of protective work professionally for computer and electrical systems.

                It's not hindsight.

                Further there was no intention to offend. Rather I was reminding everyone that if someone can supply a helpful product that protects you or saves you money that should stand alone from any emotions that may result.

                As for Mikey -- his insights and tips have saved me a lot of money and grief -- for that I am very thankful.

                Surprisingly, to me, this, and similar. topics have generated me more hate PMs and snarky comments than anything else. I think it has to do with the anger and frustration at monetary loss. In this case there was apparently no loss of life -- and for that I'm grateful.


                Cheers and best wishes!
                ---
                Will

                “There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.” —- Mark Twain

                Comment


                • #23

                  Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                  Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                  Originally posted by timberframe View Post
                  Real classy eh?

                  Anyway, Mark I'm sorry this happened to you, it must really suck. Let me know if there's anything I can do. I have a good sized generator if you think it might come in handy, perhaps if you have to disconnect the whole house for a while to to any upgrades you can run a few critical things in the house. Just let me know,

                  Brent

                  Brent thanks for the very kind offer, it is very much appreciated, heat is back on, power is on, we are fine, Replaced the power bars as a stop gap. Ordered a very good whole house surge protector good for our 200 Amp service costs $200. I surprised they are so easy to install, so we won't be down for long.
                  I suspect anyone with a VFD on a machine would be at risk as well.

                  Cheers, Mark
                  sigpicToday's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut, that held its ground.

                  Comment


                  • #24

                    Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                    Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                    Wow,
                    Living out in the country my whole life I've seen lots of power surges or the power going off and on and causing issues with electronic stuff. But this is the first time I've heard of one this bad, sounds like something you would see in a movie.

                    Glad to here no one was hurt, sounds like soon everything will be back to normal.
                    Mike @ Buck Lake

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                    • #25

                      Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                      Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                      Wow Mark i got nothing protected. So sorry buddy that hurts all the way here in Ottawa. if your got blown switches i can look in the rat hole and see what i got. all yours if you need.
                      everyone knows real machines are 3 phase. Founding member of the Wadkin blockhead club

                      jack
                      English machines

                      http://www.youtube.com/user/tool613

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                      • #26

                        Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                        Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                        Originally posted by Mark in Burlington View Post
                        Brent thanks for the very kind offer, it is very much appreciated, heat is back on, power is on, we are fine, Replaced the power bars as a stop gap. Ordered a very good whole house surge protector good for our 200 Amp service costs $200. I surprised they are so easy to install, so we won't be down for long.
                        I suspect anyone with a VFD on a machine would be at risk as well.

                        Cheers, Mark
                        Glad things are back to normal,I don't have the house protected either, maybe a couple of computers ,tvs, that's it, the furnace is a big one I never thought about.
                        Just curious, how did you install the surge protector? you mentioned it was easy, do you mean you did it yourself? more importantly, is it installed outside the house?
                        Thanks.
                        Last edited by Kayhan; 12-29-2015, 08:36 PM.

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                        • #27

                          Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                          Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                          I had no idea surges creating this much havoc were possible. If there was potential for fire or personal injury (as seems to be suggested in this thread) I'm surprised protection isn't required by code.

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                          • #28

                            Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                            Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                            Yes the damage comes from the power ball being shoved through the lines and blowing out at the end of line. I am wondering about something else that may or may not go along with whole house protection. I will start another thread about it.
                            https://www.facebook.com/gregsreinventions2016/

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                            • #29

                              Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                              Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                              As lifetime rural resident, and living in "Thunder Storm Alley", we have had many surges but nothing as bad as this. We have blown more then a few TV's, you might find some of the stuff is not a complete right off. The TV's would blow an internal circuit which was a 70 dollar fix, but these where the days of non-computer units! It would be interesting to find out what caused it. We once had a lighting strike hitting the Transformer on the pole feeding our house, quite a light show and fire but not as much damage as you had Mark.

                              Good luck with everything Mark. I think I'm going to look into a whole surge protecter.
                              When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

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                              • #30

                                Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                                Re: I need house surge protection after tonight

                                Originally posted by Mark in Burlington View Post
                                Ordered a very good whole house surge protector good for our 200 Amp service costs $200.
                                Very good as defined by price? Or by specifications?

                                A direct lightning strike typically is 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Because any protector that fails on a surge was not doing protection. How many amps was your 'whole house' protector?

                                Second, protectors never do protection. For example, best protection on TV cable is a ground block and hardwire connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to single point earth ground. Wire is only a connecting device. Protection (what harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules) is an earthing electrode.

                                Same applies to a protector. That 'whole house' protector is only doing what a hardwire does better. Protector only exists because AC electric cannot be hardwired to earth. Again, what should have most of your attention? That low impedance (ie no sharp wire bends) connection to and quality of single point earth ground (all four words have electrical significance).

                                Power bars or UPS do not even claim to protect from destructive surges. They are called surge protectors for the same reason that knots in wires are also surge protectors. Or read each specification number. How many joules does that UPS claim to absorb? Hundreds? Again, protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate.

                                That is how surge protection has been done in facilities that cannot have damage - even 100 years ago. Now for something unique here. Your surge indicates a severe 'follow through' current existed. That could exist for multiple reasons. But those reasons suggest your AC utility may have to pay for your damage.

                                Useful replies also include the 'whys'. Every layer of protection is defined by what harmlessly absorbs that energy. Above properly earthed 'whole house' solution is a 'secondary' layer of protection. Of concern is your 'primary' protection layer - also only defined by what absorbs energy. Pictures demonstrate what in that 'primary' layer should be inspected:
                                http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

                                What can happen when a 'primary' protection layer is compromised? A surge does not connect direct to earth. So plasma makes a short circuit connection from AC primary (ie 4000 or 13,000 volt) to secondary (120/240 volt) wires. Surges do not have energy to create exploding bulbs. But a 'follow through' current (4000 or 13,000 volts) connected to household appliances can cause that damage. Your symptoms are classic of a follow through current - maybe because the 'primary' protection layer did not exist or was compromised.

                                A classic surge would not cause that damage. But a follow through current, maybe created by a linemen's error could explain that damage. IOW this may be damage that the utility would have to pay for. Ask.

                                First, you are right to install a 'whole house' protector (at least 50,000 amps). Second, also inspect or upgrade what actually does the protection - the 'art' of protection - single point earth ground. Third, UPS and power bar protectors are only for surges typically made irrelevant by protection already inside appliances. Those near zero protectors also need protection provided by a properly earthed 'whole house' solution. Those near zero protectors (anyone can read specification numbers) are all but useless without properly earthing the 'whole house' solution (in rare cases may cause a fire). And fourth, this sounds like damage that an AC utility might have to pay for. Or at least should be informed so that they will inspect your service and their equipment.

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