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  • #16

    Re: Hand Plane Creating Scratches

    Originally posted by rfielder View Post
    I just checked, and I was using only 2000 grit paper. Just put two new pieced down, 1000 and 2500, and spent a few minutes on the blade. That seemed to help.

    Today at noon, went to Lee Valley and picked up an 8000 grit diamond plate. Will give this a try - do 1000, then 2500, then 8000 - and see how things work then.
    You are not putting on a finer edge by going from 2500 grit sandpaper to 8000 grit diamond stone. The size of the grits (particles) are different depending on the sharpening medium used. You need to consider the autual size measured in microns. This table should help. http://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp...isonChart2.pdf

    The 2500 sandpaper converts to about 5 micron particle size, and although a 8000 grit diamond stone is not listed on the table; Lee Valley calls it a
    extra-extra fine, and by extrapolation comes out to about 5 or 6 microns according to the table. About the same size of particle as your sandpaper. You are no further ahead in your sharpness going to the diamond stone.

    For a finer edge, you need to go to water stones or use diamond paste.
    Measure twice, cut once ... and if that doesn't work try again

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    • #17

      Re: Hand Plane Creating Scratches

      Or see page 198 of your LV Main catalogue; you do have one of those don't you? Or just look it up in the on-line one.

      DMT has a chart on their site that shows the diamond particle size for their "stones", their extra-extra fine is 3 micron. The diamond particle size is shown on page 201 of the LV catalogue for each of the DMT stones that they carry.

      According to that authoritative source (p185), 3M 2500 paper is 0.5 micron so about as fine as it gets since it matches LV green compound particle size! I have 0.5 micron paper (p203) that works a treat on carving tools so I suppose that it would do equally well for other edge tools. I just never use it for that purpose.

      There is a bit more to how something sharpens other than the particle size since the friability of the medium and the bond strength holding the medium also factor into the scratch pattern left by any sharpening stone or paper. Particle size is a pretty good guide for brand-new media, just be aware that it is not the only thing to consider.

      Ken
      Last edited by KenL; 04-13-2017, 11:00 PM.

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      • #18

        Re: Hand Plane Creating Scratches

        So Ken, the key point I'm making is the newly purchased diamond stone is not going to offer a sharper edge than the use of 2500 grit sandpaper. If the OP is using 3M sandpaper with the claimed 0.5 micron grit, then using the diamond stone after that, is a step backwards in getting a finer edge according to the info. you sourced. The table I referenced was put together by Christopher Schwarz, an authoritive source in his own right.
        Last edited by Kunzwerks; 04-13-2017, 06:48 PM.
        Measure twice, cut once ... and if that doesn't work try again

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        • #19

          Re: Hand Plane Creating Scratches

          Originally posted by Kunzwerks View Post
          So Ken, the key point I'm making is the newly purchased diamond stone is not going to offer a sharper edge than the use of 2500 grit sandpaper. If the OP is using 3M sandpaper with the claimed 0.5 micron grit, then using the diamond stone after that, is a step backwards in getting a finer edge according to the info. you sourced. The table I referenced was put together by Christopher Schwarz, an authoritive source in his own right.
          I am sure that we are in agreement. I know that Mr Schwarz gets his information from the manufacturers' websites; the same as we do (or from the Lee Valley catalogue, who , in turn, get it from the manufacturer). I am uncertain where he got the notion that 1 micron diamond paste is actually 1.2 micron as shown in his table. I would go with the manufacturer on that one; so let's say it was a misplace of his data!

          If the 2500 sandpaper is 3M CrO2 paper, then Robert would be going in the wrong direction with an extra, extra fine DMT diamond plate. I provided the data only in the same spirit as the others; I cited references so he could look for himself.

          Ken
          Last edited by KenL; 04-13-2017, 11:08 PM.

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          • #20

            Re: Hand Plane Creating Scratches

            Yes, we are in agreement. Question remains, is this a sharpening issue, or more precisely an edge retention failure (resulting in scratches) as a result of inadequate edge sharpness when planing hard maple end grain? I'm leaning towards a sharper edge is needed. A sharper edge will result in increased planing time between sharpening and an easier push of the plane through the end grain.
            Last edited by Kunzwerks; 04-14-2017, 01:06 AM.
            Measure twice, cut once ... and if that doesn't work try again

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            • #21

              Re: Hand Plane Creating Scratches

              Unfortunately, I have to agree - the 8000 grit diamond stone is not am improvement.

              "Unfortunately", because of the $$$ spent.....

              The diamond stone seems to get sharp faster, but does not provide the mirror finish. Perhaps using the DMT stone first, then the 2500 sandpaper to polish, will be the best way to take advantage of the purchase.....

              In the end, I sanded the scratches out, using the 80 - 150 - 220 - 400 grit route. Final product is very nice, and it gave me a change to try my new dust mask.

              Thanks to all who have participated - there has been some excellent information provided!

              Sharpening can be a huge topic - is there forum dedicated to sharpening?

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