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LV replacement blade & cap question

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  • LV replacement blade & cap question

    I bought a 2" LV blade and cap set for my ancient Baileys #4C and #5. My number four is a very old type, the frog has to be adjusted manually as there is no screw behind it. Number 5 is a bit later, probably pre WWI though, I don't remember the exact type now. I bought one kit to see how it is going to work and I have encountered some problems:

    4C - I can put the LV iron with the original chip breaker in. The problem is, because the blade is thicker the opening is too small, even if I move the frog back. I cannot insert both the LV iron and the cap as it does not fit in, too thick. Not good:(

    5 - the kit fits, but again, even if I move the frog back the opening is simply too small, actually there is no opening at all, the blade touches the plane bottom. If I put a LV blade and the original cap or the LV cap and the original blade then I get slightly better results, but only marginally.

    Did anyone encounter similar problems? What can I do? I like the blade thickness and would like to use it with the new cap, but how do I do that? I read David Charlesworth's books and he mentions widening the opening for Hock blades. But I am a bit hestitant to treat my planes with a file...
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  • #2

    Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

    Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

    I have the same problem. It's only a bit too long so I will probably just grind a little off the new chip breaker.

    Jim

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    • #3

      Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

      Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

      What I'm about to say is not anti LV or anti modern plane blades. It is however anti quick fix.

      Anyone that tells you that to tune up a plane you have to start with replacing the blade is either trying to sell you a blade, or trying to sound like they know what they are talking about, and have latched onto a semi informed old wives tail. For the record the LV does not make this kind of claim.

      A thicker blade and/or cap iron may solve some issues with older planes, but many on this and other sites proclaim their healing powers like old time snake oil salesmen.

      Rant over... All flaming arrows sent my way should be used in well ventilated areas

      If you have determined that your new blade and cap iron are necessary, or you just want them on your plane, it's time to face facts that you will need to modify the plane, as the mouth simply was not designed for that thick of a blade.

      It's not that hard, and in fact, if the front of the mouth is ragged as many old plane castings can be. You may find that filing the mouth clean and flat will benefit you even if you don't replace the blade.

      The big thing is you really need to understand what you are doing and why you are doing it. Do you know what the front of the mouth does. If you do, you should know roughly what angle to file at. If you do, there is no reason not to be comfortable filing your planes.

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      • #4

        Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

        Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

        OK, got you The thing is, my $4 blade is almost dead. I mean, it's been sharpened so many times by previous users that there is almost no meat left on it. On the other hand the #5 Bailey blade has a lot of life in it, but for some reason I am unable to sharpen it properly. It is not Stanley, it was made by/in "Shelbourne" or "Sherbourne" in the late 19th or early 20th century. It works very nicely on pine but on hardwood it is just not sharp enough.

        David Charlesworth suggests filing at 15 degrees if I remember correctly. I am wondering if the 15 degrees should point to the knob or to the tote?

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        • #5

          Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

          Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

          Originally posted by Kris in Toronto View Post
          David Charlesworth suggests filing at 15 degrees if I remember correctly. I am wondering if the 15 degrees should point to the knob or to the tote?
          The front of the mouth provides support to the wood fibers as the blade cuts them. There is a sweet spot where you maximize fiber support with out being so tight that the mouth clogs. Forget the knob and tote. Should your mouth angle towards or away from the blade if you want maximum support and minimum clogging?

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          • #6

            Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

            Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

            The slant up from the mouth should be towards the knob (front/toe) to leave clearance for shavings. I suggest using a scribe to trace the new desired opening, otherwise you can get a litte lost if you just eyeball it, and end up filing a bit crooked or taking too much off.
            Frank
            SPCHT

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            • #7

              Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

              Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

              Thank you. I will try with #4 first and will share the results. I also found this:
              http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/f...leyplanes.aspx
              So apparently older Baileys do have narrower opening...

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              • #8

                Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

                Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

                Thanks Kris,

                I'll open the mouth to .200".

                Jim

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                • #9

                  Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

                  Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

                  Here's a bit of advice on filing the throat opening.

                  http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com...p/t-36256.html

                  good luck

                  michael

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                  • #10

                    Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

                    Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

                    OK, I did it and so far it looks VERY promising!

                    By the way, my Bailey #4C is probably type 7 (1893-1899) and number 5 is type 11 (1910-1918).
                    Last edited by Kris in Toronto; 06-06-2011, 06:47 PM.

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                    • #11

                      Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

                      Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

                      Kris,

                      It's interesting that mine is a 4 1/2 type 7. I had a look at things. Sorry but this had been set off to the side for too long and I had misremembered the problem. On mine the lever cap overhangs the bevel on the chipbreaker. I expect shavings to get jammed. I can't bring myself to grind the original lever cap shorter, so my plan is to regrind the replacement chipbreaker to a steeper and shorter angle. I read Effect of Knife Chipbreakers on Surface Finish by Professor Chutaro Kato Yamagata University, Yamagata, Japan http://planetuning.infillplane.com/h...ker_study.html . He found that a chipbreaker with a steeper angle works better, so my change to the LV chipbreaker should at least not be detrimental. As our plane's are the same type/age I was wondering if your lever cap had the same "overhang" problem.

                      Thanks
                      Jim

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                      • #12

                        Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

                        Re: LV replacement blade & cap question

                        Jim, I am sorry for my belated reaction to your message, I completely forgot about your question. I will check the lever cap and let you know. If I remember correctly I don't have this problem, but I am not sure now.
                        Cheers,
                        Kris

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