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I have a 3hp shaper, now what tooling??

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  • rangerdave1
    started a topic I have a 3hp shaper, now what tooling??

    I have a 3hp shaper, now what tooling??

    I bought a new General Int. 40-250 shaper a few years back for a price I could not resist. For those not familliar wit this shaper, it is a 3hp with 3/4 spindle.

    It has been sitting collecting dust for 4 years now but I would like to put it to use. I do not have any tooling yet and every time I search online, I end up more confused then before. I know this has been discussed before but I can't seem to find any threads that provide anything useful to me.

    I would like to start building raised or shaker style doors with the shaper with hopes that the larger cutters will give a better finish and decrease tearout which I am getting using the router bits now. I am also looking to get a miterlock cutter because I can't seem to use the one on the router table without always getting a lot of tear-out.

    can anyone point me to a relatively affordable rail/stile shapper cutter?? I know many buy a cutter head and seperate knives but what I available is quite expensive and I leaning towards a simple dedicated cutter be as I always build the same two types of doors..

    What is available for the 3/4" spindle in a door cutter and where can I get it?


  • rangerdave1
    replied
    to bad its 4 hour drive each way for me.

    Leave a comment:


  • timberframe
    replied
    That would be a good sized feeder for that machine and I hate to say it, but it's a decent price for out east.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bryan @ Woodstock
    replied
    I was searching Kijiji and a Craftex feeder popped up in Kitchener at $450, but location is PEI. Also listed on PEI Kijiji
    https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details...dId=1412013949 Click image for larger version

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    Leave a comment:


  • timberframe
    replied
    A shaper has a superior cutter head geometry and typically will produce a better finish because it slices the wood instead of pulverizing it, though of course they're not invincible. This will often translate to less tearout but also better finishing due to less burnishing of the wood if you have your feed rate set properly. Though it's a more advanced technique, if you have a power feeder attached to your shaper, climb cutting can also help with difficult grain.

    B

    Leave a comment:


  • Bryan @ Woodstock
    replied
    One trick I use is to have the blank rail/stile 1/4" or so over width. That way if a piece splinters/tear out I can run the damaged profile side across the jointer to eliminate the problem and try to run it past the shaper cutter/router bit again. When I have all the parts successfully made I run them through the saw to width + 1/16", then one pass on the jointer. Eliminates having to throw pieces away because of wild grain.

    Leave a comment:


  • rangerdave1
    replied
    Originally posted by Rusty View Post
    I'm Not arguing but tear out has never happened to me using the router to raise panels. I'd love to have someone tell us what is causing your grief because last time I looked, both machines spin a cutter in a circle so if you get tear out with a router it seems reasonable that you will get the same result with a shaper and if you do it is going to come down to your method and procedures. Hopefully that doesn't happen to you but if it does you will have spent a fair chunk of change to be disappointed. NO?
    I am not getting tear out raising panels, I am getting it When I profile the rails and stiles. Its not happening on all of them but a bit more often then I would want. From the comments so far, seems my technique is the issue. My first pass i run 1/16 deep and step feed it to start the groove and avoid any tear out. Then i increase the depth and finish the profile.

    Are there any advantages to using a shaper cutter for rails and stiles?? If yes, what are they? Increased feed rate? Longevity of the cutter?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rusty
    replied
    I'm Not arguing but tear out has never happened to me using the router to raise panels. I'd love to have someone tell us what is causing your grief because last time I looked, both machines spin a cutter in a circle so if you get tear out with a router it seems reasonable that you will get the same result with a shaper and if you do it is going to come down to your method and procedures. Hopefully that doesn't happen to you but if it does you will have spent a fair chunk of change to be disappointed. NO?

    Leave a comment:


  • timberframe
    replied
    Originally posted by rangerdave1 View Post
    Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I understand this machine is light duty and I certainly do not expect to run large cutters on it however it must have a purpose since they make shapers even smaller with 1.5hp motors...

    I will add a power feeder on it when I can find a used one because they are too expensive when new.

    Please keep sharing your suggestions along with your personal preferences and experiences
    You can certainly do lots of work on that machine that will be more enjoyable than on a screaming dust factory known as a router. They have their role and I own four of them, one in a table, but I do not use them if I don't have to. The shaper is just so much more enjoyable.

    The motor horsepower unfortunately isn't the best way to gauge a shaper's capabilities. It's really about how stout the spindle/quill assembly is, and how capable the bearings are and that's hard to gauge from the outside. For example, my smaller, 2HP shaper has a quill and spindle assembly that weighs half as much as your entire machine. The bearings are as big around as a softball and cost a small fortune to replace. This machine can handle the radial loads that proper pattern milling would put on it all day. It's always really hard to advise folks about the capability of their machine, and I don't always trust the manufacturers.

    Power feeders are a great addition and if you keep your eyes peeled, one will pop up!

    B

    Leave a comment:


  • rangerdave1
    replied
    Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I understand this machine is light duty and I certainly do not expect to run large cutters on it however it must have a purpose since they make shapers even smaller with 1.5hp motors...

    I will add a power feeder on it when I can find a used one because they are too expensive when new.

    Please keep sharing your suggestions along with your personal preferences and experiences

    Leave a comment:


  • timberframe
    replied
    Originally posted by rangerdave1 View Post

    Just ordered it!
    Good man, get ready to have your mind blown....the cool stuff you can do with your shaper will surprise you. You're off on an adventure....

    Leave a comment:


  • rangerdave1
    replied
    Originally posted by timberframe View Post
    If you haven't yet, invest in this book. It's the only book I know of that is up to date with respect to shaper safety methods: https://www.amazon.ca/Spindle-Moulde.../dp/0854421505

    B
    Just ordered it!

    Leave a comment:


  • rangerdave1
    replied
    Regarding the tearout on the router, I am using Lee Valley bits which are practically new, no nicks and hardly any use. I am running a Milkwaukee 5625 (3.5hp) router in a Kreg router lift. I am feeding slowly and seems to make little difference wether I make it in 1 pass or in several. I always seem to have a couple pieces out of 20 that tearout a lot. Perhaps its just those pieces of wood with grain directions that does not router well.. I was thinking and hoping that the larger shaper bit will cut better because of the different cutting angle. But Maybe thats just an unrealistic expectation...

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian @ Muir
    replied
    I agree with Rusty . If you are getting tear out on your router there is something wrong, either your bits or your method.

    Brian

    Leave a comment:


  • Bryan @ Woodstock
    replied
    I started with a Busy Bee 3 hp shaper back in 1987. I found the shaper scary at 1st, so I purchased a small Delta 1/6 hp feeder. I bought a Freud 4 cutter cabinet door set, adding the 2 glass door cutters to that set. You swap out 2 of the cutters for building glass pane cupboard doors. Only used that set to make glass doors for 2 corner cabinets. I bought a 3 wing Freud raised panel cutter. I raise the panel in 3 passes using the power feeder. That got me into building kitchen cupboards or making new doors for refacing. I did the work part-time as a way to buy more tools or upgrade equipment for the workshop. You do need a hold down sled for the rails and stiles. I had a shop made version, but it needs to be able to hold stock at 90 degrees. I now have a Shop Fox hold down jig. Most cutters I have bought are 3/4" shaft.

    Leave a comment:

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