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Crafted Planer Switch Problem

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  • Randy in Calgary
    replied
    Originally posted by John Bartley View Post

    I use it more on fixed connections as an oxygen shield than I do on switches................
    That's what it is for. And it works.

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  • John Bartley
    replied
    Originally posted by Randy in Calgary View Post
    Lubrication for mechanical action on a switch is fine. Inserting any elements into a switches electrical path can create problems. If a switch is properly designed for use in free air, let the air be free. Gooey stuff, be it conductive or dielectric, can attract dust and debris and that can cause other issues. Depends on what you are trying to achieve for the particular installation. Dielectric grease is often used to protect electrical connections from corrosion by caustic atmospheres or water ingress, but is not used to reduce contact resistance. There are conductive pastes that are designed to do that for some specialized applications.
    For some years I used the dielectric grease that came from AC-Delco, but my supply dried up. For many years now I have been using copper anti-seize from Permatex. I use it more on fixed connections as an oxygen shield than I do on switches, but I gotta' say .... the success rate after all these decades is pretty good .... can't get better than 100% .... maybe it's the pink sunglasses

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  • John Bartley
    replied
    Originally posted by Randy in Calgary View Post

    I wear pink sunglasses on the third Sunday of every July. I believe it protects me from stampeding elephants. So far, so elephant induced injuries.
    Hey, whuddya know ... so do I

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  • Randy in Calgary
    replied
    Lubrication for mechanical action on a switch is fine. Inserting any elements into a switches electrical path can create problems. If a switch is properly designed for use in free air, let the air be free. Gooey stuff, be it conductive or dielectric, can attract dust and debris and that can cause other issues. Depends on what you are trying to achieve for the particular installation. Dielectric grease is often used to protect electrical connections from corrosion by caustic atmospheres or water ingress, but is not used to reduce contact resistance. There are conductive pastes that are designed to do that for some specialized applications.

    Leave a comment:


  • Randy in Calgary
    replied
    Originally posted by John Bartley View Post

    I have always used some sort of lubricant on electrical connections and switches, but my thought was that any lubricant won't hurt the action of a switch and if I can keep air from getting into the switch action it should reduce arcing and extend contact life .... I have no evidence to support that, but after several decades doing this it doesn't seem to have hurt anything, so .... so far, so good?
    I wear pink sunglasses on the third Sunday of every July. I believe it protects me from stampeding elephants. So far, no elephant induced injuries.
    Last edited by Randy in Calgary; 12-09-2019, 10:51 AM.

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  • John Bartley
    replied
    Originally posted by Randy in Calgary View Post

    Seeing is believing, if the theory does not resonate.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC2HVoHWNLA

    Vaseline and dielectric grease can prevent moisture ingress into electrical connections and thus prevent corrosion. But a dielectric grease is better, and applied over connections that are already a tight metal on metal contact.
    I have always used some sort of lubricant on electrical connections and switches, but my thought was that any lubricant won't hurt the action of a switch and if I can keep air from getting into the switch action it should reduce arcing and extend contact life .... I have no evidence to support that, but after several decades doing this it doesn't seem to have hurt anything, so .... so far, so good?

    Leave a comment:


  • Randy in Calgary
    replied
    Originally posted by callee View Post
    Thanks Randy, so if I hear you right, you're saying Vaseline is *not* conductive? Year's ago it was explained to me as exactly the opposite: that Vaseline was conductive and therefore if you were having trouble getting a connection between two irregular contacts (I.e. a worn plug) a bit of Vaseline would "goop" on there and help bridge the gaps from the irregular surfaces. I think I probably have used that "trick" the most with children's toys - they have some battery powered toy, forget about it for a year, and then one day pick it up and find it won't work any more because the batteries corroded and of course then it's the end of the world because even though they haven't touched that toy in a year it is the most important one to them and means everything! In such cases, I've usually used a little wire brush to clean all the corrosion crud off the battery springs as best I can, but usually then the thing still won't power up and so a bit of Vaseline smeared on the spring usually does the trick.

    I hope I don't sound like I disbelieve rod and you - not at all, this is just a real surprising bit of side news - to find out a trick you've used for years is actually bad! In any case, in a situation like the kids toys, what would you recommend instead?

    Thanks
    Seeing is believing, if the theory does not resonate.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC2HVoHWNLA

    Vaseline and dielectric grease can prevent moisture ingress into electrical connections and thus prevent corrosion. But a dielectric grease is better, and applied over connections that are already a tight metal on metal contact.

    Leave a comment:


  • callee
    replied
    Thanks Randy, so if I hear you right, you're saying Vaseline is *not* conductive? Year's ago it was explained to me as exactly the opposite: that Vaseline was conductive and therefore if you were having trouble getting a connection between two irregular contacts (I.e. a worn plug) a bit of Vaseline would "goop" on there and help bridge the gaps from the irregular surfaces. I think I probably have used that "trick" the most with children's toys - they have some battery powered toy, forget about it for a year, and then one day pick it up and find it won't work any more because the batteries corroded and of course then it's the end of the world because even though they haven't touched that toy in a year it is the most important one to them and means everything! In such cases, I've usually used a little wire brush to clean all the corrosion crud off the battery springs as best I can, but usually then the thing still won't power up and so a bit of Vaseline smeared on the spring usually does the trick.

    I hope I don't sound like I disbelieve rod and you - not at all, this is just a real surprising bit of side news - to find out a trick you've used for years is actually bad! In any case, in a situation like the kids toys, what would you recommend instead?

    Thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • Randy in Calgary
    replied
    Originally posted by callee View Post
    Thanks for the responses everyone. I'm still curious: anyone have any idea why this would have happened? What would cause those contacts to suddenly fuse together like that?

    Also, Rod, could you explain a bit more about the Vaseline? I've often heard that advice, and it's not that I don't believe you, but I'd like to understand a bit better. What exactly is a high resistance connection, and why is that bad?

    thanks!
    I doubt it was "sudden". If the switch contacts are not robust enough, they can be gradually degraded by the arcs that occur when starting/stopping a motor. Eventually the effective contact area is reduced to a point where the contacts are getting hot, and can then fuse together.

    Vaseline is an insulator and can interfere with the conduction of current through the contacts. Resistance in an electrical path results in heating at the resistance points. There are conductive pastes that you can buy that are sometimes used to reduce contact resistance, but there are rare and specialized applications.

    Leave a comment:


  • callee
    replied
    Thanks for the responses everyone. I'm still curious: anyone have any idea why this would have happened? What would cause those contacts to suddenly fuse together like that?

    Also, Rod, could you explain a bit more about the Vaseline? I've often heard that advice, and it's not that I don't believe you, but I'd like to understand a bit better. What exactly is a high resistance connection, and why is that bad?

    thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • Rod Sheridan
    replied
    As Nathan said, bypass the switch and use the breaker.

    Also don’t put Vaseline on contacts, it will result in a high resistance connection.....Buy a new manual starter (it’s not called a switch) as soon as you can.....Regards, Rod.

    Leave a comment:


  • nnieman
    replied
    I would bypass the switch and turn it on /off with the breaker - for using it this weekend and then get a new switch ASAP.

    I actually keep a fused disconnect wired up and ready to go for such things.
    I also use it for testing old motors that I find.
    It doesn’t really help you now but I’m the future it’s pretty handy to have around.

    Nathan

    Leave a comment:


  • Beaverfever1988
    replied
    On my 240v planer (Hitachi f1000a), the switch was burnt out. I ended up hard wiring it and used a power bar as the switch until I got a replacement.

    As Al said, unplug when done for safety. I personally never leave any machine plugged in. I just don't trust electrical that much haha. Good luck!

    Leave a comment:


  • al.m..
    replied
    Sounds like you have the planer working again,if it was me,I would go ahead and use it,but,I would not walk away with the power on.
    in other words,keep your ears,eyes and nose On alert,use it,then disconnect the power when done,
    order a new switch,your on borrowed time

    Leave a comment:


  • John Bartley
    replied
    Originally posted by callee View Post

    Thanks John. This is really not my area of expertise at all, but I'm a little confused how a light switch would work? the machine is a 240v, so don't both the black and the white need to be switched? I.e. don't I need a switch with 4 contacts in total, two on each side?
    If it's wired according to the manual (single phase), each side of the switch opens or closes one side of the 240v line. All that "should" be needed to turn the motor on or off is to interrupt or connect one of the two lines. So wire one side together and switch the other side.

    NOTE (to those perfectionists and safety enthusiasts who are freaking out right now): This is for emergency use only, and depends on how the motor is wired and switched.

    Leave a comment:

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