Grizzly Tormek wet grinder clone

[Bob R., Ottawa [OP]]

I've been searching for a grinder tool since I have nothing at the moment and I'm wanting one that sharpens the most amount of tools for the cheapest price that does a good job.
I considered the Veritas wet stone angle jig but that won't do my lathe toold.
I considered the Worksharp but that won't do lathe tools very well since my gouge will have to be done freehand.
I like the Tormek but that's crazy expensive and I'm just a weekend warrior hobbiest. The T-3 was still expensive but doable.
I'm seeing tormek clones like the Triton and the Grizzly.

What do you guys think of this? It's $165 american. It used most Tormek accessories:


T10010 Wet Grinder Kit
220 grit grinding wheel is specially made for wet grinding
90 RPM wheel speed
Grinding wheel measures 10" diameter x 2" wide
Water bath keeps tools cool while sharpening
Leather stropping wheel measures 8" diameter x 1-1/4" wide
Includes polishing/honing paste

[willr]

Re: Grizzly Tormek wet grinder clone

I've been searching for a grinder tool since I have nothing at the moment and I'm wanting one that sharpens the most amount of tools for the cheapest price that does a good job.
I considered the Veritas wet stone angle jig but that won't do my lathe toold.
I considered the Worksharp but that won't do lathe tools very well since my gouge will have to be done freehand.
I like the Tormek but that's crazy expensive and I'm just a weekend warrior hobbiest. The T-3 was still expensive but doable.
I'm seeing tormek clones like the Triton and the Grizzly.

What do you guys think of this? It's $165 american. It used most Tormek accessories:


T10010 10" Wet Grinder Kit
220 grit grinding wheel is specially made for wet grinding
90 RPM wheel speed
Grinding wheel measures 10" diameter x 2" wide
Water bath keeps tools cool while sharpening
Leather stropping wheel measures 8" diameter x 1-1/4" wide
Includes polishing/honing paste

It's most likely a Taiwanese import... but it does look interesting.

I thought if it was an import then maybe General or King carried similar -- but the only product kinda similar is the King wet/dry. KC-10SG $220??
http://www.kingcanada.com/Products.htm?CD=98&ID=24

[OttawaP]

Re: Grizzly Tormek wet grinder clone

I recently picked up a barely used Tormek. If you want square chisels, irons etc. then these machines need to be built to very high tolerances. I doubt the Grizzly measures up but others may chime in. A couple of poor setups when I first got it resulted in skewed blades. A little practice and now it's 2nd nature.

FWIW, while stupidly expensive, the Tormek T7 is a lifetime tool, much like the planes it may sharpen. They have a jig for pretty much every blade you own in the house depending on how much you want to use it.
It's designed for 24/7 continuous commercial use with a 7 year warranty so it is a quality purchase. Now that I own one I can see the value in it and would replace it with a new one if I had to for some reason, hopefully that will never happen.

I've sharpened plane irons, jointer blades, chisels, card scrapers, kitchen knives, cabinet scraper blades....yaddda yadda yada all to perfection. There is a bit of a learning curve that will take a week or so of playing with but after that it's pretty mindless and repeatable.

[Lost in the Woods]

Re: Grizzly Tormek wet grinder clone

I've been very interested in getting a Tormek for quite a few years.

I've actually sent a quasi order request as to what Grizzly would charge for delivery to Ontario/GTA along with the four accesories. I'll advise of their shipping charges. Yes they do send USPS - avoiding the reaming by other major carriers to Canada - and the dollar right now has propelled to the 90 cent range in the last few weeks. It's gettting to be a nice time to shop SOME stuff US again. Closing at 89 pesos today per BOC.

There's a few links I just came across doing a Google that I thought are worth digesting. The first simply being the Grizzly sites info.

http://grizzly.com/products/t10010

Interesting feedback from owners here:

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/1144

I hate buying things twice so I'm still leaning towards the Tormek myself.

[Bob R., Ottawa [OP]]

Re: Grizzly Tormek wet grinder clone

Some reviews:
http://woodworkersblog.blogspot.com/...er-review.html

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40808

American Woodworker Issue #139 Dec/Jan 2009

This review was negative:
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/2925

[willr]

Re: Grizzly Tormek wet grinder clone

Some reviews:
http://woodworkersblog.blogspot.com/...er-review.html

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40808

American Woodworker Issue #139 Dec/Jan 2009

This review was negative:
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/2925

It looks like the last "negative review" reflects a case of damage in shipping otherwise good feedback...

If that's the case -- it would be worth a try in my opinion fwiw. Especially as you can add the better Tormek jigs.

It's your money -- so if you can't afford the Tormek... :-)

Cross border returns can be a real pain -- keep that in mind.

[Lost in the Woods]

Re: Grizzly Tormek wet grinder clone

Some reviews:
http://woodworkersblog.blogspot.com/...er-review.html

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40808

American Woodworker Issue #139 Dec/Jan 2009

This review was negative:
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/2925

That first link....I can't log into it. I found it also on Gooogle, and the page initially displays with a display error message splayed over top, and the second I clik to delete the error message the page fries.

Generally, I think that those looking for a Tormek type of system are uncomfortable with going with other systems, and those considering the knock off, just seem to indicate more or less it's not worth it. The fact that G only has a limited range of accesories for the unit causes concern for me.

Built in Germany - for the Grizzly knock off - is a POTENTIALLY strong selling point, but there are too many other negative implications whether relayed in the current commentaries, or possibly in longevity/accuracy that for me do not warrant JUMPIMG on the discounted Grizzly knock-off. (Not everything out of Germany is GREAT. They've got their **** and mis-cues just like everybody else, albeit in minuscule quantities in comparison.)

Not sure if you've done your cost comparisons on this side of the border, but Tormek is just like Festool, there is "Price Fixing" more or less, and the Canadian distributtors for the Magnum - all the fixin's - will want about $1500+ (taxes in ) for it. Not cheap, but darn, reading some of those reviews don't have guys complaining about the price...it's more "You get what you pay for"...."It will last a lifetime"...."The only sharpening system you'll ever need", comments that bring ME that much closer to getting one for myself.

[Bob R., Ottawa [OP]]

Re: Grizzly Tormek wet grinder clone

I just don't have $700 + to spend on a sharpener. Even the Worksharp for $269 is about what I paid for my Dewalt 734 planer. Can you imagine a sharpener costing what a planer costs?
Even worse, the Tormek is what I paid for my table saw (almost). That's just not right.

It's either a worksharp or a tormek clone for me, maybe the T-3 but I don't see them anywhere near me.
What's a T-3, $400? That's a possibility. The wheel looks a little small and skinny though. Not sure how a handplane blade would work on a wheel that's more narrow than the blade.

[Dean in Metchosin]

Re: Grizzly Tormek wet grinder clone

Looking at the worksharp myself. Could not justify a Tormek for my uses. Just to passing it on that KMS tools have had the worksharp 3000 for 199.00 during their sales. Probably pick mine up there when it is on again

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Re: Grizzly / Tormek wet grinder clone

IMO the Tormec or knockoffs are not the sharpener you want for your turning tools, (too slow and time consuming to setup, with a good chance of gouging the stone that you than have to square-up again)
A normal grinder with a Wolverine jig is all you need, and the $1500.-- knife sharpener ?????, well that's up to you .

[OttawaP]

Re: Grizzly Tormek wet grinder clone

Nobody needs ALL the tormek jigs......$1500 is insane, i mean who needs to sharpen an axe to the same level as a chisel?? a mill file is fine...

Bob...the the thinner wheel would not be a show stopper, you are supposed to run the blades past the edge on each side to avoid dishing the blade. My plane blades are wider than my wheel on the t7 and I can camber or keep them straight as needed.

Leo....I don't turn so I can't comment on how well it works for those tools but it does appear to be very popular in the Tormek forums with turners. The argument appears to be the extra time it takes is worth it for the extra sharp it gets the tool so it last much longer between sharpenings.

Don't forget too, than working without sparks in you shop is not a bad thing either....

Here's a review I did when I bought the jig.......


First let me say that I’m far from being any sort of expert, but I’m never without an opinion on most things, especially those that I have experience at. Sharpening has always been a bit of a chore for me and has in the past probably slowed down developing my hand tool experience. I started with scary sharp on a granite slab, moved on to water stones, the Worksharp 3000, and now the Tormek grinder.
If it were not for a good price on a used Tormek system, I probably would not be writing this thread but I feel now that my journey has ended and others may benefit from my trip.
The scary sharp works extremely well. It gets items as sharp as one could ever want by taking it up to 8-12k grit if desired with diamond pastes. Problem is it’s way too slow to change the bevel or repair a bad edge at the lower grits. That type of patience is just not in my genes, life’s too short. The SS method is better for quick touch ups and keeping something sharp, preferably with a honing guide imo.
Water stones ….. excellent results, but again too slow at the lower range. I would recommend a grinding wheel first then move onto stones for finishing up and maintenance. Again the sky is the limit for the polish grit, go as high as you want.
But what I really wanted was a one stop, one method, fast and crazy sharp system. Along comes nirvana the Worksharp system. It was as if God himself was looking down on me. There is nothing on earth that can bring a chisel or small iron to perfection as fast and as repeatable as the WS. Add to that the leather honing wheel with green compound and we are talking hair splitting sharpness in record time. But all that wonder comes at a price…….the 2” max on the bottom guide. Not so good for my LV BU plane blades. Yes they now have a top guide but I tried it with my own copy of it with my honing guide and a clamped piece of melamine on the top with so so results. The blade was a bit skewed from the fact that the inner blade tip is being ground slower than the outside blade tip……..simple math really, I don’t think it reasonable to expect perfection from a 6” disk and a 2 3/8” blade. I think this where the LV power sharpening system is probably much better with its 8” disk but I’ve never used it. Also I tried a little flip piece of HW that the blade rested on using the support bar. This worked ok but not as good as just the water stones and guide. But I wanted one method that was fast……
So a good deal on a used Tormek wet grinding wheel sort of fell in my lap, I wasn’t looking. It was only 6 months old and almost 50% off so I had nothing to lose I could always resell it. There no way I said to myself that I would pay full pop for that thing at over $900 with the jointer/planer blade jig. But the results are exceptionally good. This is a commercial heavy duty product with a continuous duty motor designed for 24/7 use and a 7 year warranty to boot. I’ve sharpened chisels, plane irons, jointer blades, card scrapers, scraping blades, hand electric planer blades, kitchen knives all to near perfection and most better than I have ever done before. But how does it compare to the others ?? From what I understand it finishes to a 6k grit with it honing compound and leather wheel. I never went past 4k and then green honing compound (8k I believe) so the difference is not noticeable to me. To a true Neanderthal hand plane psycho this is probably not enough but I live in the real world and can take ultra less than .001” shavings with my planes if needed so that’s good enough for me. If I get 5 minutes of less use before resharpening then so be it. The hollow grind is minimal and not of concern on a 10” wheel or a worn 8” one. I bought the new black wheel this week also for the jointer blades, laminated steel and A2 plane blades. It just makes the process faster than the original as it is designed for these types of steel….not carbon steel in which case the original wheel is faster. Between these two blades I expect well over 10 years of use before replacement. We’ll see.
Now….there is a learning curve. There is a certain skill needed unlike the no brainer WS system. Its minimal but you can get off track a bit and have to make adjustments. Inside a couple weeks though I’m quite comfortable now and can produce a straight or cambered blade as needed. It is NOT as fast as a WS on chisels or small plane blades. The actual cutting time is probably faster but the setup makes the overall experience a bit slower, a minor trade off. My jointer blades are better than I ever got from any sharpening place. When was the last time you saw mirrored edges on jointer blades ??? I’ve gotten little nicks and cuts all over my hands, I guess it’s a right of passage of sorts. It can be messy on long blades such as the jointer blades but a cookie sheet under the unit takes care of that and for everything else it’s no more cleanup than water stones or wet sandpaper. Flattening the backs have mixed reviews, you do it on the side of the wheel then hone on the leather. Some say yes some no and use another method but since my blades are already flattened I don’t know. I did flatten the card scrapers of the old burr and they were fine. Since that is mostly a onetime event when a tool is first purchased then it’s not a deal breaker in my book.
Wood turners apparently love this thing also. I don’t have a lathe but there is a big following of lathe users who use it and love the results from what I see. The think the jig based repeatability and extra sharp tools is what gets the rave reviews.
If you asked me if a few years ago if I would have spent this much money on a sharpener I would have rolled my eyes and said you were nuts. But I’m a believer now. It’s an excellent system at any price. Even full price it’s worth the cash for the long term. This is a lifetime purchase for me, comparable to a leigh jig, cabinet saw and LV planes, buy once and forget it, you’ve arrived. My journey is over……..
Comments welcome.
Edit....I have now started to touch up by hand my chisels on the my waterstones between grindings. A few swipes and I'm back in business. Once the hollow is gone I regrind it back again. You can get a few re honings too on the leather wheel instead if you don't have stones.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Re: Grizzly Tormek wet grinder clone

I don't really want to get into a pissing contest with those that did spend a fistful of $$, and don't want to admit it was not the best decision for the task at hand.
But just to give a couple of reasons why this is, first off, most of the turning tools are either HSS or and better, like powdered steel with Carbide and Molybdenum in it, rather than the high carbon that is used for many knife steels and plane irons.
Further, when turning a 10 to 12 inch bowl at the normal speed of 1000 rpm, it would give you a 3000 feet traveled distance every minute, now I assume that the plane iron would be re-sharpened before it has gone a 1000 feet, in this scenario the carbon steel turning tool would last 1 minute, make it a bit longer for the better steel, and I'd still be sharpening more than turning to keep the tool in this sharper condition.
So IMO if you like sharpening and or bragging about your sharper edge, by all means get your motorized whet-stone, but for turning, I and most every other turner will use a normal grinder with very good success

[OttawaP]

Re: Grizzly Tormek wet grinder clone

I don't really want to get into a pissing contest with those that did spend a fistful of $$,

Neither do I but I can't imagine anyone disappointed with a Tormek.
Like I said I know squat about turning but the tormek forum is flooded with turners who love the thing..........

Here's a little biased reading, videos and review for those interested. http://www.tormek.com/en/woodturning/index.php

Assuming normal wood and good tools how long do you go between sharpenings??? the videos I've watched, guys just keep cutting and cutting and cutting till the bowl is done ??

[Lost in the Woods]

Re: Grizzly Tormek wet grinder clone

I've actually sent a quasi order request as to what Grizzly would charge for delivery to Ontario/GTA along with the four accesories. I'll advise of their shipping charges. .

Grizzly does not ship into Canada it seems, but do offer a variety of excruciating methods to buy their products. Here's the reply from Grizzly:


Dear Sir,

Due to an agreement with a Canadian company we cannot ship orders into Canada. However, we can offer you a few options for placing orders with us.

1) We can ship your order to the U.S. address of your choice, for instance the address of a friend or relative or of a freight forwarder of your choice. You would then need to arrange for your order to be forwarded to the final destination in Canada. To help you begin your search for a freight forwarder, a small list of freight forwarders can be found at www.freightnet.com. All duties, taxes and freight charges beyond the United States would be your responsibility.

2) We can ship your order to an address near the border for you to pick up. For instance, you could arrange to pick up your machines from the terminal of the freight carrier we use to ship your order, or make arrangements for another transportation company near the border to accept your freight and hold it for you to pick up. Please see the attached document for more detailed information regarding this option.

3) You can make arrangements for a freight carrier of your choice to pick up your freight order from one of our warehouse locations to ship to your final destination.

Your order must ship via a common carrier (a freight carrier that does business with the general public) and your carrier must give us a tracking number (PRO) number at the time they pick up your freight. You will be responsible for all of your carrier’s charges. Also, if your order should become lost or damaged in shipping, you will be responsible for filing a claim with your carrier and purchasing replacement merchandise and / or replacement parts from Grizzly.

4) You can visit one of our showrooms, located in Muncy, PA, Springfield, MO and Bellingham, WA. There is no minimum order requirement for showroom orders. If you wish to visit one of our showrooms, please call or e-mail us to confirm product availability before you make your trip.

If you are interested in placing this order, please provide us with and address to which you would like your order shipped. We will then provide a quote.

If you decide to place an order, payment may be made by Western Union, PayPal or by bank wire transfer for an additional $30.00 fee. We cannot accept checks, bank drafts, cashiers' checks or money orders for international orders (including international orders shipped to a U.S. address to be forwarded to the final destination).

We can only accept a credit card as a form of payment if we can obtain electronic verification of the cardholder's billing address through our credit card processor. We use this electronic address verification instead of your signature, and cannot accept your credit card without it. We have found that many banks outside the United States do not provide this electronic address verification service. We can accept your credit card as payment in our showrooms, assuming that the cardholder is present to sign for the transaction.

Please be advised that the only documents we will provide for customs clearance is a commercial invoice and the information necessary for your freight forwarder to complete a Shipper Export Declaration (SED) if one is required. Your forwarder must also provide the export declaration through AES. We cannot provide a Certificate of Origin for the products on your order, but we will show the countries of origin of the items you purchase on the commercial invoice we provide.

In addition, will not sign any power of attorney allowing your freight forwarder to file an SED on our behalf, as we will not be making any of the shipping arrangements with them, nor will we sign any other shipping instruction forms they may request. Please review this information with your freight forwarder and verify that they will have no problems exporting your order.

It is your responsibility to find out what documents or certificates will be required to import your order into your country, and to verify whether or not Grizzly can provide them, before you place an order with us.

Also, please note that any special packaging requirements for export will be your responsibility, including any requirements for wood treatment.

If we can be of further assistance or if you would like to place an order, please do not hesitate to contact us. Thank you for your interest in our products.


Sincerely,


Grizzly Industrial, Inc.

They also included this information in a PDF attachment:

Thank you for your interest in Grizzly Industrial’s woodworking and metal working machines! Grizzly uses a number of freight carriers to ship our machines to our customers. Some of our carriers have terminals located near major border crossings.
If you choose to have an order shipped to one of these terminals to be held for pick up, the carrier will notify you when it arrives and you can then come to their terminal to pick up your freight. Be sure your vehicle is capable of handling the weight and crate sizes of your machines and that you bring plenty of tie downs to secure your load. The freight carrier should be able to load your freight into your vehicle. You will only be responsible for Grizzly’s flat-rate freight shipping charges.
Please note, our carriers will usually require that you pick up your freight within a couple of business days of its arrival at the terminal, after which time they may begin to charge storage fees for your freight. Please keep this in mind when preparing to place your order with us.

Fort Erie, ON / Buffalo, NY:

New Penn Motor Express

6640 Transit Road Williamsville, NY 14221

(30 km. / 19 mi. from Fort Erie, ON)
UPS Freight
2580 Kenmore Ave
Tonawanda, NY 14150-7847 (25 km. / 16 mi. from Fort Erie, ON)
Windsor, ON / Detroit, MI:
UPS Freight
6150 Inkster Rd.
Romulus, MI 48174-2442 (40 km. / 24 mi. from Windsor, ON)
Queenston, ON / Lewiston, NY:
UPS Freight
2580 Kenmore Ave
Tonawanda, NY 14150-7847 (37 km. / 19 mi. from Queenston, ON)
New Penn Motor Express
6640 Transit Road Williamsville, NY 14221 (50 km. / 27 mi. from Queenston, ON)
Niagara Falls, ON / Niagara Falls, NY:
UPS Freight
2580 Kenmore Ave
Tonawanda, NY 14150-7847 (27 km. / 16 mi. from Niagara Falls, ON)

New Penn Motor Express

6640 Transit Road Williamsville, NY 14221 (40 km. / 24 mi. from Niagara Falls, ON)
Sarnia, ON / Port Huron, MI:
UPS Freight
6150 Inkster Rd.
Romulus, MI 48174-2442 (134 km. / 82 mi. from Sarnia, ON)
Coutts, AB / Sweetgrass, MT:
FedEx Freight West
2425 US Highway 93 S Kalispell, MT 59901 (292 km. / 181 mi. from Coutts, AB)
UPS Freight
2660 Gabel Rd
Billings, MT 59102-7300 (545 km. / 338 mi. from Coutts, AB)

Possible Alternate Pick Up Locations

Another possibility for picking up your freight from a location near the border is to make arrangements with a company such as FedEx Trade Networks or UPS Supply Chain Solutions for them to accept your freight from Grizzly’s freight carrier and hold it for you to pick up. Some of these companies’ locations are listed below. Please note that these are not freight companies that Grizzly works with to ship customers’ orders.
These companies may charge you a fee in exchange for accepting and holding your freight on your behalf. Any such charges will be in addition to the flat-rate freight charges you will pay to Grizzly. If you choose to have an order shipped to a company such as FedEx Trade Networks or UPS Supply Chain Solutions, you will be responsible for contacting them prior to placing your order to make all necessary arrangements. You will also be responsible for paying any applicable charges directly to them.
Also, please note that the addresses shown below may be only for their offices; there may be alternate addresses to which freight should be delivered. Please verify the address to which Grizzly should ship your freight and provide that address to us when you place your order.
FedEx Trade Networks Offices:

Sweetgrass Blaine

300 International Blvd. 1050 B Street Sweetgrass, MT 59484 Blaine, WA 98230 (406) 335-2000 (360) 332-3080

Sumas Oroville

146 Cleveland St. 20 Kernan Rd. Sumas, WA 98295 Oroville, WA 98844 (360) 988-0123 (509) 476-3581
UPS Supply Chain Solutions Northern Border Offices:
Calais 417 Main Street Calais, ME 04619 Tel.: (207) 454-8077
Houlton 7 Terminal Drive Houlton, ME 04730 Tel.: (207) 532-6080
Derby Line 134 I-91 South - PO Box 500 Derby Line VT 05830 Tel.: (802) 873-9450
Norton 123 Nelson Road – PO Box 49 Norton, VT 05907 Tel.: (802) 822-5440
Highgate Springs 408 Welcome Center Road, Highgate Customs Complex Swanton (Highgate Springs), VT 05488 Tel.: (802) 868-2464
Alexandria Bay
46739 U.S. Interstate Rte 81 Wellesley Island, NY 13607Tel: (315) 482-4501

Champlain
One UPS Way Champlain, NY 12919 Tel.: (518) 298-8000

Massena Roosevelt Border Station Massena, NY 13662 Tel.: (315) 764-0153
Obdensburg 103 Bridge Approach Rd Ogdensburg, NY 13669 Tel.: (315) 393-0171

Buffalo

1 Scrivner Drive Cheektowaga, NY 14227 Tel.: (716) 608-7100
Lewiston Bridge 1 Lewiston Bridge, Suite 204 Lewiston, NY 14092 Tel.: (716) 284-2076
Peace Bridge 1 Peace Bridge Plaza, Buffalo, NY 14213 Tel.: (716) 883-5583
Detroit Main 9401 Harrison Rd Romulus, MI 48174 Tel.: (734) 840-0000
Ambassador Bridge 2808 W. Fort Street, Suite 113 Detroit, MI 48216 Tel.: (313) 963-2610

Port Huron

1824 Pine Grove Avenue Port Huron, MI 48060 Tel: (810) 989-0000
Sault Ste Marie 1100 West Easterday Avenue Sault Ste Marie, MI 49783 Tel.: (906) 632-7599

Pembina

231 North 3rd Street Pembina, ND 58271 Tel.: (701) 825-6241
Dunseith RR 1, Box 109 Dunseith, ND 58329
Tel.: (701) 263-4826
Ranier 2078 Spruce Street Ranier, MN 56668 Tel.: (218) 286-5231

Sweetgrass

309 Second Street Sweetgrass, MT 59484 Tel.: (406) 335-2639
Eastport Highway 95 North PO Box 249 Eastport, ID 83826 Tel.: (208) 267-2072

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Re: Grizzly Tormek wet grinder clone

A little biased ??, yes I would think so
I might be able to find some good commendations for a Yugonowhere automobile at the Yugo headquarters

Like a lot of turners, a quick sharpening when starting and a resharpening for the final cut, is often enough for a smaller bowl, regardless what sharpening device is used.

This is also the reason for a lot of turners to say the expensive exotic steels don't really make much sense, as these tools are sharpened much like above, when using good HSS.