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8" Jointer advice

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  • Seagull29
    replied
    Re: 8" Jointer advice

    I bought a CX08 two weeks ago, happy so far, but have not yet put it through its paces. Mind you my first jointer, so nothing to compare it too. On the issue of a spiral cutter versus knives, the Feb 2011 issue of PWW (#188) has an article on this by Glen Huey. His conclusions were: sprial cutters are much quieter, more durable and easier on dust collection due to the shorter and smaller shavings they produce. Also easier to install and rotate when damage does occur (simply rotate each cutter 90 degrees). Huey says cost is a wash based on the sharpening issue others have raised, so he says unless the budget is tight right now, eliminate cost from your decision making. However, Huey's conclusion was to not install a spiral cutter on his jointer, because the wood was then thicknessed through a 3 knife planer. His preference based on his style of woodworking was to install a spiral cutter in his thickness planer while staying with knives on his jointer. I guess he thicknesses both sides, turning stock end-for-end at the planer. He did note a spiral cutter on a jointer is better in a high-production shop, but recommends thinking about your style of woodworking and determining your needs from that. Your shop dollars should go where you need them most. My CX08 savings will contribute to a better bandsaw in the future (I hope...).

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  • RIP_Ray
    replied
    Re: 8" Jointer advice

    allo

    I should get this http://www.elitetools.ca/produit/deg...ogramme-lagunain a couple of days. (I hope to put it together this week end if a friend come to help me)
    If you are not is a rush to buy, you may wait after my first impression comments

    Salutations
    Ray

    Leave a comment:


  • matt.mackinnon
    replied
    Re: 8" Jointer advice

    I've had a 6" knife jointer, and traded it in for a 12" Byrd.

    Take a jointing 101 class. With a knife, you will need to look at the board to see what direction the grain is going in. If you run a board (any board) the wrong way then you will not get a clean cut. Try it with a hand plane. If you plane a board in one direction, you will get a nice smooth finish and the other way it will be rougher.

    Now with a carbide spiral head, this all goes away. It's not as smooth as a very sharp straight blade jointed the correct direction, but you don't have to even look at the wood, let alone determine the grain direction. it will joint either way without issue. Where curly wood comes in, is you can have boards that the grain runs in all directions, and then there is no correct way with a straight blade.

    Brian also hit the nail on the head. How much time do you spend removing, sharpening, and re-setting a blade? how long before you get that first nick. And when you get it, do you pull your blades and start over, or live with it? Carbide doesn't nick quite so easily. If you do nick a blade, spin the head to find the damaged carbide blade, and less than 20 seconds to rotate the bit. I'd rather be woodworking than setting machines up.

    Reason #2.. take an end grain cutting board and flatten it on your staight blade jointer or planer?

    Matt.

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  • Bryan @ Woodstock
    replied
    Re: 8" Jointer advice

    I would never go back to straight knives. Once a year , put in 3 sharpened blades in the Dj-20 at a cost of $15 each. Add the cost of gas to drop off 30 miles away and then pick up a week later. I found setting knives and then getting the jointer to cut perfect again a PITA. Same for the planer, but it cost $80 for 4 knives to be sharpened.

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  • glenF
    replied
    Re: 8" Jointer advice

    Originally posted by Bob R., Ottawa View Post
    If you get a used machine there's no help offered to adjust the beds 90 degrees to the fence, a new machine might be a different story.
    Huh?

    Why would you need "help" to set your fence at 90 degrees to the beds? As far as I know, the fence is adjustable and all you need to do is take a square, hold it next to the fence, adjust it, and lock it in place. It works the same regardless if the jointer is new or used...

    Of course, you are entitled to your opinion but do you have first hand experience with spiral heads on a jointer or planer to dismiss them? I had straight knives before for 10 years and now that I have a spiral head, I can clearly see (and hear) the difference. There's no way I would ever consider going back. I also regret my decision of buying a straight knives planer. I wish I knew better back then.

    I don't think anyone can make an informed decision until they have experimented with both types of heads.


    GlenF

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  • glenF
    replied
    Re: 8" Jointer advice

    Hi Randy,

    As others have already pointed out:
    1. Much quieter
    2. No more complicated knives adjustments
    3. Easy knive replacement
    4. Cutting edge last a lot longer on carbide inserts than straight knives
    5. Easier on figured wood and hard wood

    Dollar wise, a spiral head is slightly cheaper on the long run if you factor in the cost of the sharpening service and the knives replacements themselves. Take a look at this article on the Wood Nerd website.

    From personal experience, I had both type and I'm glad I've switched over to a spiral head on my 8" jointer. I have straight knives in my 15" planer and if I knew what I know today, I would have spent the extra 800$~1000$ to get it on. I've looked at the instructions on how to upgrade a planer from straight knives to spiral head and I know already I won't do it... Way too much work and I'm not a mechanic, so you're better off making your decision right away than later on.

    Hope this helps,


    GlenF

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob R., Ottawa
    replied
    Re: 8" Jointer advice

    Yep, get a new craftex, grizzly or King - all the same. Don't bother with spiral cutter heads on a jointer, I've never had issues on my edges with any wild grain. If I do have issues I'd just hand plane the final edge (which I always do now anyway). A used craftex, grizzly or king jointer is an even better score.
    If you get a used machine there's no help offered to adjust the beds 90 degrees to the fence, a new machine might be a different story. Always take a reliable square or digital gauge on any machine.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wally in Calgary
    replied
    Re: 8" Jointer advice

    Originally posted by Randy in Calgary View Post
    Hi Wally. Thnaks for that. Who sells King in Calgary now?
    Black Forest sells them but they want $1399 + for the KC80FX that I have. I don't think that you will do enough jointing to warrant a spiral IMHO and what that cost you is what it's worth. LOL. If you don't mind paying another $500 for something you might only require once a year then that's up to you. I have never found a need for it and you know how much that I do. I put the extra money towards a drum sander that I use all the time. JMHO FWIW.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian @ Muir
    replied
    Re: 8" Jointer advice

    The real advantage that I have found with the Byrd head is that the durability of the carbide and it not just lessens the tear out, there is none and for my self running a lot of hard maple this is a big plus. I found it very discouraging to install a newly sharpened set of knives and 15 minutes later one is nicked. My byrd is in my planer and have no real plans to get one for the jointer as tear out was never a problem and I joint mainly for larger panels that I run through the planer. On the planer it does require sanding as the Byrd cutter will leave a very slight ridge that needs to be sanded out. This ridge is not really visible in the raw wood but if you put a finish on it it stands out like a sore thumb or it you rub your hand across the panel you can feel it. I agree with Rusty's friend that a set of sharp knives will give a better finish( no Ridges ) but I have never got much further than a couple of days without the odd nick and tear out was always a problem.There are guys on here that I know that have them in their jointers and love'm

    Brian

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  • Rusty
    replied
    Re: 8" Jointer advice

    I've never seen a cut with a spiral head cause I don't own one but a guy told me they are not as smooth as a typical straight blade Jointer. Before you all jump on me It's something I was TOLD!

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  • hawk223
    replied
    Spiral cutter heads are quieter, no need to adjust the knives, if you nick a blade you replace or turn the one cutter, and there is less issues with tear out on figured woods.

    Leave a comment:


  • Randy in Calgary
    replied
    Re: 8" Jointer advice

    Originally posted by glenF View Post
    Hi,

    Delta still manufactures the DJ-20 so I don't see parts for this machine dissapear anytime soon. Let alone the fact that almost every stationnary tool manufacturer makes an identical clone of this machine, I'm pretty sure there will be plenty of parts in the future, so I wouldn't have any worries on this end.

    If I can make one suggestion though; you should spend a little more and get a spiral head on your new jointer. It's certainly quite a bit more money up front, but you will never regret it. I bought the King Canada KC-85FX and I would buy it again today even if it was selling for 500$ more than I initially paid for (1800$).

    I just checked the BB Craftex (CX08SC) and it's pretty much the same machine as the King Canada but it got some nice features. It sells for 1500$ which is an excellent price. Quite frankly, it's pretty much a no brainer to me...

    By the way, I would not make a big deal of the size of the motor, 2HP or 3HP is meaningless. Think about it a minute, you will never remove more than 1/16" or less on each pass for a total width of 8". It's not a huge workload for a 2HP motor. People have to get real about motor sizes...

    I guess you already have my answer to your question. Neither of them is a good buy if you can get the same jointer equipped with a spiral head for 1500$, with a full warranty.

    Hope this helps,

    GlenF
    Thanks GlenF,

    Why is the spiral cutterhead so much better? You still have to sand or scrape prior to finishing do you not? And the edge finish on a regular jointer is OK for glue joints. Or is it more around durability and less sharpening?

    Enquiring minds need to know!

    Leave a comment:


  • pho88
    replied
    Re: 8" Jointer advice

    Hi Randy,

    I bought the CX08 this past Feb, hard to argue with the value. I'm pleased with the performance, does everything you would expect a jointer to do. I think it's a good machine for a great price.

    Originally posted by Randy in Calgary View Post
    Hi All,

    I can get a used 4 year old DJ-20 for $950 in great condition. I will have to add a mobile base which will bring the cost up to $1100.

    I can buy the new Craftex CX-08 for $999, which has integral mobile base, 4 knife cutterhead and 3HP motor and warranty. The new CX series looks like much better quality than the older Craftex stuff, and this machine looks like a copy of the DJ-20.

    http://www.busybeetools.com/products...RHEAD-CSA.html

    Any opinions on the way to go?

    Leave a comment:


  • glenF
    replied
    Re: 8" Jointer advice

    Hi,

    Delta still manufactures the DJ-20 so I don't see parts for this machine dissapear anytime soon. Let alone the fact that almost every stationnary tool manufacturer makes an identical clone of this machine, I'm pretty sure there will be plenty of parts in the future, so I wouldn't have any worries on this end.

    If I can make one suggestion though; you should spend a little more and get a spiral head on your new jointer. It's certainly quite a bit more money up front, but you will never regret it. I bought the King Canada KC-85FX and I would buy it again today even if it was selling for 500$ more than I initially paid for (1800$).

    I just checked the BB Craftex (CX08SC) and it's pretty much the same machine as the King Canada but it got some nice features. It sells for 1500$ which is an excellent price. Quite frankly, it's pretty much a no brainer to me...

    By the way, I would not make a big deal of the size of the motor, 2HP or 3HP is meaningless. Think about it a minute, you will never remove more than 1/16" or less on each pass for a total width of 8". It's not a huge workload for a 2HP motor. People have to get real about motor sizes...

    I guess you already have my answer to your question. Neither of them is a good buy if you can get the same jointer equipped with a spiral head for 1500$, with a full warranty.

    Hope this helps,

    GlenF

    Leave a comment:


  • Randy in Calgary
    replied
    Re: 8" Jointer advice

    Originally posted by Wally in Calgary View Post
    I would go with the Craftex and the 3 yr. warranty. It's identical to the Grizzlys and they get good reviews. I have the King that is a direct knock off of the DJ 20 and have been very happy with it. Don't forget Delta is no longer supplying parts for a lot of machines and when the parts they do have disappear there will be no more. FWIW JMHO.
    Hi Wally. Thnaks for that. Who sells King in Calgary now?

    Leave a comment:

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