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Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

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  • Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

    Another piece of Canadiana just found its way into my shop. If this lathe is anywhere near as old as the patents it is in remarkably good condition. I am not sure what I will do with it after I clean it up. I just couldn't resist it. I am trying to figure out what to do about the linen belt. I am thinking that it might be worthwhile looking into a couple of step pulleys and a v belt instead. Or maybe keep the linen belt for nostalgic reasons. Not sure. Any advice on replacing this kind of belt?




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    Last edited by tool fan; 10-16-2018, 11:54 AM.
    Matt Matt likes this.
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  • #2

    Re: Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

    cool lathe!!
    how about a leather belt?
    my shop is a beaver lodge
    steve, sarnia, ont




    1940's Craftmaster Lathe

    https://www.facebook.com/artistryinwoodca/

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    • #3

      Re: Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

      That is too cool! I take it everything works?

      Re the belt, I haven't done it but I believe there are sources out there for this kind of belting. There is a special device that clamps the alligator clips to the cut ends. Personally I would keep the original look but it is up to you.

      Appears it has flat ways. If they are worn, that makes it a lot easier to have them ground flat again.

      Does it have a morse taper in either the headstock or tailstock spindles? Those make it more flexible.

      Craig

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      • #4

        Re: Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

        For a belt that short it would probably be better to get a neoprene belt designed for the service. The joint is glued after installation.
        Cool lathe.
        Rob

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        • #5

          Re: Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

          anks for the comments. The ways are flat and what impressed me was how smoothly everything moves. It has clearly been used and not neglected. The tailstock has a MT 2 taper, I got the chuck off and discover that the headstock is round and not tapered. The chuck has 4 independent jaws, a bit of a nuisance, but for the price I'm not complaining.

          I had another look at the belt and discovered that at the join a straight pin holds things together. When I picked up the lathe, we took one pillow block off in order free the belt and separate the lathe from the stand. It turns out that we should have looked more closely at the belt and saved some time. Anyway, it appears that the belt is functional so I will leave it alone for now. Although it did occur to me that a serpentine belt might be an effective alternative.

          Here are a few more pictures.

          There is just a little pin holding the belt together and it is easy to remove.

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          Detail of headstock with chuck removed. What impressed me was the lack of rust. This old machine has clearly been used and maintained, unlike most of the older and neglected lathes that I have become accustomed to.
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          Details of gears. Some repairs have been made or maybe the gear was home built.



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          Last edited by tool fan; 09-27-2018, 10:17 AM.
          WCraig likes this.

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          • #6

            Re: Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

            4 of your 5 pictures aren't loading for me?

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            • #7

              Re: Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

              Originally posted by WCraig View Post
              4 of your 5 pictures aren't loading for me?
              Sorry about that. I just noticed your comment. The edit feature was still active so I was able to load the pictures. Hopefully this time they "stick"

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              • #8

                Re: Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

                After watching the Ryder cup finish this morning, I was so psyched that I tackled the lathe. I had actually done some work (clean up and painting) yesterday. Today I put it back together. I discovered that the lathe has 2 lead screws, one for moving the tool carriage from right to left and the other from left to right.

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                The chuck and the tailstock are the only components that are branded. On the chuck Imperial Makers Branftord Ontario Ker and Goodwin is stamped onto the face. I did a quick search and discover that Ker and Goodwin made lathe chucks and face plates. The company started in Brantford Ontario in 1897. Here is a picture of the face of the chuck

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                There was a lot of sticky tar like crud on the flat belt pulleys. I cleaned it off only to discover that once the pulleys were clean, the belt slipped. I tried a serpentine belt that was the same length as the linen flat belt. It slipped too. Then I stretched a bandsaw tire over the pulleys but had the same result. I began to realize that the crud that I had removed was actually needed to provide friction. Then I noticed the container of Cling
                Surface Bar Belt Dressing in the drawer with the rest of the stuff that came with the lathe.. It appears to be mostly tar, but works pretty good to make the drive pulley work. I wonder how old this is.



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                The motor appears to be just about as old as the lathe and like the chuck originates in Brantford, Canada

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                Here are a few more pictures of the progress so far. It is still mounted on the plywood stand that came with the lathe. I was pleased to find that the gear banjo is solid brass. The stand is solid but really dirty. I will have to make something else.

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                Attached Files
                Last edited by tool fan; 09-30-2018, 08:40 PM.

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                • #9

                  Re: Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

                  In my youth the type of belt used was quite common and readily available.

                  For today you might find what you need in baler belting??
                  Egon
                  from
                  The South Shore, Nova Scotia

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

                    Originally posted by Egon View Post
                    In my youth the type of belt used was quite common and readily available.

                    For today you might find what you need in baler belting??
                    You are correct Egon, baler belting uses the same concept, but on a much larger scale. For now I think I will stay with the linen belt, after all, it appears to have lasted for quite a long time. Once I had rubbed the cling compound onto the belt, it seems to work well. Below is a picture of a baler belt that I pulled off of the internet. The serpentine belt that I tried was only 1/2" wide and I used it with the ribs against the pulleys. This didn't give much surface area to hold and I probably should have turned it over. Similarly, the bandsaw tire is 7/8" wide and more elastic than either the linen belt or the serpentine belt. The actual linen belt is 1 1/4" wide.

                    As I think as I type, a wider serpentine belt with the smooth side against the pulleys might just work.



                    For you metal lathe people I have another question. On the back of the headstock, behind the drive pulleys, is a set of gears than can be meshed with gears on the headstock spindle. The only purpose for this that I can determine is to lock the spindle once power to the lathe has been turned off. Is there some other function to this that I am not seeing?

                    Thanks

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                    • #11

                      Re: Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

                      Those are called back gears and you will have to release the spindle lock so the direct drive is no longer engaged. It will be on the work end of the spindle. As I said earlier because your belt is so short you should be using a neoprene lathe drive belt. A baler belt is not made to transmit power.
                      Rob

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                      • #12

                        Re: Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

                        Originally posted by iamtooler View Post
                        Those are called back gears and you will have to release the spindle lock so the direct drive is no longer engaged. It will be on the work end of the spindle. As I said earlier because your belt is so short you should be using a neoprene lathe drive belt. A baler belt is not made to transmit power.
                        Rob
                        Thanks Rob! I wondered why there was a bolt (pin) in the gear. Once I released it from the cone pulley, and engaged the back gears the power and speed change are impressive. I had no idea. This is indeed a cool and powerful machine. Good thing guys like you are around to help me. Thanks again!

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                        • #13

                          Re: Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

                          Belt dressing, I remember it well, exspecially the smell.

                          The belt conector could also be leather laceing.
                          Egon
                          from
                          The South Shore, Nova Scotia

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Re: Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

                            Originally posted by iamtooler View Post
                            Those are called back gears and you will have to release the spindle lock so the direct drive is no longer engaged. It will be on the work end of the spindle. As I said earlier because your belt is so short you should be using a neoprene lathe drive belt. A baler belt is not made to transmit power.
                            Rob
                            I am wondering if you could share a source for neoprene lathe drive belts. There is a good tool shop in Victoria that I have used for odd parts. All that they could suggest was an auto part retailer and a serpentine belt. I went that route and got a 1" wide serpentine belt that seems to work but would like to heed your suggestion I also went online and could not find a source for neoprene lathe drive belts.

                            Thanks

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                            • #15

                              Re: Vintage 11 x 36 Lathe (W.F. and John Barnes Co Twin Lead Screw)

                              Originally posted by tool fan View Post

                              I am wondering if you could share a source for neoprene lathe drive belts. There is a good tool shop in Victoria that I have used for odd parts. All that they could suggest was an auto part retailer and a serpentine belt. I went that route and got a 1" wide serpentine belt that seems to work but would like to heed your suggestion I also went online and could not find a source for neoprene lathe drive belts.
                              I've never dealt with them but have a look at:

                              https://albinoindustrialbelting.com/lathe-belt-pricing

                              Craig

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