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  • Help needed to wire in new switch for vintage Delta D/P

    Would like to change the existing toggle switch to an old GE Control Start/Stop switch that was kindly provided by Jacques Leclerc. Existing arrangement has motor and cord black wires terminated on switch. White wires marreted together and grounds terminated on box. The GE switch has 2 screws below the start and above the stop buttons. What is the proper termination, white/black from motor and power cord on both the start/stop buttons or black wires to start and white to stop. As you can see from the question have never wired this type of switch! Here are a few pictures.

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    Thanks in advance for your help.
    Frank
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  • #2

    Re: Help needed to wire in new switch for vintage Delta D/P

    The start/stop station you want to install is not a switch to start/stop a motor, it is to start/stop a magnetic switch that will turn the motor on and off.
    Rob

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    • #3

      Re: Help needed to wire in new switch for vintage Delta D/P

      Looks like the screws on the left do the same job as the Mars on your existing switch but I'm sure some of the sparkies here can say for sure. Looks like someone more sparky than me was posting while I was typing.
      Last edited by Doug G; 09-26-2019, 02:48 PM. Reason: added second sentence

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      • #4

        Re: Help needed to wire in new switch for vintage Delta D/P

        Totally confused now Rob and thought only little bit when posing the question. Here are the on/off switch arrangements for my bandsaw, table saw and drill press [non vintage]. Is there something extra on their motors or in the switches themselves that start/stop these tools? Where does this magnetic switch go that you are saying turns the motor on/off? Next question would be what do you recommend? Or should the existing arrangement be left alone. Starting to get a headache!
        Click image for larger version

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        • #5

          Re: Help needed to wire in new switch for vintage Delta D/P

          No need for a headache Frank, The problem is your dealing with apples and oranges there. Referring to the 3 pictures you posted, the two big "stops" are conventional contact switches. The magnetic switch in the middle is what most people normally think of when they think of a magnetic switch, the on-off switch and the magnetic coil are both enclosed in one convenient enclosure.

          Now we get to your problem. The switch you have plus a magnetic coil do the same as the magnetic switch you have above except they are in two parts. Why? Because they are often used for industrial purposes, the switch you have can be located close to the machine operator but the magnetic starter can be installed in a box on the back of the machine or in a control panel mounted on a wall far away.
          Here is a generic wiring diagram for your switch. Part M - N.O. AUX. is not included in your switch it is a separate item. It is the magnetic closer

          Click image for larger version  Name:	Start Switch.jpg Views:	0 Size:	116.6 KB ID:	1252806

          Here is an example of a magnetic closer I have. It is larger than you would need, but you get the idea. It will handle three phase, but can also handle single phase.

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          Now if you want to avoid all of this. Busy Bee sells inexpensive contact switches similar to the big stop paddle switches you have on the General machines above. I have 3 or 4 left in stock, they work quite well and will handle 115, 230 and even 3 phase. There are better quality switches around still, but they may be harder to find and cost more. One example the square D switch below, I have a similar GE switch around too but didn't spend the time to find it. The Klockner-Moeller switch beside it is very good quality but you will pay for it, it will handle 3 phase as well. I have 4 of them that I salvaged from a scrapped industrial machine many years ago.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	Start Switches.jpg Views:	0 Size:	91.8 KB ID:	1252808
          Last edited by Carlosinthesticks; 09-26-2019, 10:32 PM.

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          • #6

            Re: Help needed to wire in new switch for vintage Delta D/P

            Carlos that gives me a headache for Frank. When these questions come up all the guy wants is for someone to tell him what screw to put the black wire on.

            Here's the possibilities simplified. He's got 3 wires coming in from his receptacle and 3 wires going out to the motor. That's 2 blacks, 2 whites and 2 green grounds. Tell him which screws to put the black wires on, then the whites and then the greens

            4 wires change things and you can address the additional red wire but tell him where to put them all in simple form like; PUT THE INCOMMING BLACK ON THE LOWER RIGHT/LEFT SCREW IN PICTURE #3 ETC.

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            • #7

              Re: Help needed to wire in new switch for vintage Delta D/P

              Originally posted by Frank English View Post
              Totally confused now Rob and thought only little bit when posing the question. Here are the on/off switch arrangements for my bandsaw, table saw and drill press [non vintage]. Is there something extra on their motors or in the switches themselves that start/stop these tools? Where does this magnetic switch go that you are saying turns the motor on/off? Next question would be what do you recommend? Or should the existing arrangement be left alone. Starting to get a headache!
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              Your existing switch is considered a no-no for anything over about a quarter horse power. It is a light switch designed to switch a resistive load not a motor and could potentially fuse in the on position. If you open the switch on your table saw you will see a magnetic switch (contactor) controlled by a start/stop station like the one you want to use but mounted in the lid. It will include an overload device that will interrupt power if the motor draws too much current. You could ad the stop/start station you want to use to that switch if you wanted a second location to stop/ start.

              Comment


              • #8

                Re: Help needed to wire in new switch for vintage Delta D/P

                Perhaps someone could explain for the OP what the advantage of a magnetic switch is. My understanding is it prevents a machine from restarting if there is a power interruption when the power comes back on. It's not mandatory (I think) but is an extra safety feature. There may be other advantages that I'm not aware of.

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                • #9

                  Re: Help needed to wire in new switch for vintage Delta D/P

                  LOL, HA HA Thats exactly what I would have done Rusty and I would have made a quick drawing as well. But he can't use this switch for what he is trying to do, not without a magnetic contacter. What I was saying was, he has to get a conventional contact switch and made some suggestions, unless he can find a magnetic starter. If he goes that route he would need an additional electrical box. Not much point giving the OP black to black instructions if he is not going to go that route.

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                  • #10

                    Re: Help needed to wire in new switch for vintage Delta D/P

                    Originally posted by Doug G View Post
                    Perhaps someone could explain for the OP what the advantage of a magnetic switch is. My understanding is it prevents a machine from restarting if there is a power interruption when the power comes back on. It's not mandatory (I think) but is an extra safety feature. There may be other advantages that I'm not aware of.
                    No need to explain. The benefits are explained in the first image I uploaded, just click on it to expand it.

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                    • #11

                      Re: Help needed to wire in new switch for vintage Delta D/P

                      Originally posted by Carlosinthesticks View Post
                      LOL, HA HA Thats exactly what I would have done Rusty and I would have made a quick drawing as well. But he can't use this switch for what he is trying to do, not without a magnetic contacter. What I was saying was, he has to get a conventional contact switch and made some suggestions, unless he can find a magnetic starter. If he goes that route he would need an additional electrical box. Not much point giving the OP black to black instructions if he is not going to go that route.
                      Carlos second pic in post #7 says magnetic switch so it isn't a starter , Right???

                      Comment

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                      • #12

                        Re: Help needed to wire in new switch for vintage Delta D/P

                        Don't know where you are coming from Rusty, 2nd picture in post #4 and #7 is a compete magnetic starter including the built in start-stop switch. The OP only has the start-stop switch he is missing the seperate magnetic closer in that style of magnetic switch. Maybe you are missing the point that in a magnetic starter, the start-stop switch DO NOT START THE MOTOR, what it does is close the magnetic switch and that starts the motor.

                        I guess I should mention I worked as a Stationary Engineer for close to 30 years and going into control panels to reverse motors etc was quite common. Stationary Engineers are trained as a jack of all trades (master of none you may have heard) If you loose a piece of equipment in the middle of the night when an electrician may not be available, you are expected to be at least able to do some basic trouble shooting.
                        Last edited by Carlosinthesticks; 09-26-2019, 06:51 PM.

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                        • #13

                          Re: Help needed to wire in new switch for vintage Delta D/P

                          Yes that one says magnetic switch not magnetic starter.

                          I have a magnetic starter on my Unisaw. I paid a little over $300.00 for it years ago. It's all self contained.

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                          • #14

                            Re: Help needed to wire in new switch for vintage Delta D/P

                            Rob, Carlos, Doug & Rusty thanks for the enlightenment on switches/switching. Always appreciate the magnitude of the knowledge in this forum. In my little mind, figured changing out the switch was going to be a no-brainer but as typically goes, wrong idea. With no past tool rewiring experience [hired electrician] thought it would be like extending wiring connections from one house outlet to another i.e. motor cable to switch then switch to power cord all on the four little screws. The D/P came with the switch as shown and my idea was to try to get to a type switch more in tune for D/P vintage.

                            So it appears my options would be [1] finding/buying what Carlos's pic 2 post #5 to use my start/stop switch or buy what he shows in pic 3 same post or [2] Rob's "You could ad the stop/start station you want to use to that switch if you wanted a second location to stop/ start". How could this be accomplished and with what extra pieces and/or wiring?

                            Thanks again for your replies and help.

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Re: Help needed to wire in new switch for vintage Delta D/P

                              You got it Rusty, yours would have the start/stop switch and the magnetic starter incorporated into one unit. Busy Bee sells the imports for around $100 now. I have a couple for use with larger motors.

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