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General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

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  • General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

    I have a General 130 planer and I'm changing the knives for the first time. This has shown one slight issue, one of the bolts in the gib bar has a stripped hole and mangled threads. the shank appears to be 1/4" but its not 1/4"-20 by my rough estimation, some searching suggests I'm wrong and it is 1/4-20, I will test with one of the other good bolts to confirm the thread size.

    Given the damage what thoughts are there on the best way to repair? I was thinking about running the appropriate tap through the gib bar and swapping a good bolt into that hole since its on the far end of the bar. I would then use the "bad" bolt in one of the inner holes.

    Alternatively, does anyone have a source on these bolts? I only need 1 so it should not be too costly.
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  • #2

    Re: General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

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    • #3

      Re: General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

      Just checked my stash and I only have a few 5/16-18 gib bolts. I’m pretty sure they will 1/4-20, my General planer has the 1/4” size.
      Do you have a Greg’s Distributers near you? They probably will have one. Ask for a square head set screw. Something like 1/4-20 X 3/8” should get you close. You might end up having to cut the threads shorter.

      Fastenal might be another source.
      Mike @ Buck Lake

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      • #4

        Re: General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

        I would get a helical kit and repair the thread. Use just a little Locktite on it when you put the helical in to help hold it in place. No suggestions for a replacement screw except I would not use the old damaged one in another hole or you could very well mess it up too.

        Pete

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        • #5

          Re: General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

          Can you not Drill and Tap a new hole close ?
          I have some gib bolts but they are hex head and you are welcome to 1
          I can set it up for you and do the tapping.
          I dont think a hex head will change anything.
          QC suggestion should also work.
          Last edited by redlee; 04-07-2021, 02:34 PM.
          • “The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes.”Winston Churchill

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          • #6

            Re: General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

            Originally posted by mikeddd View Post
            Just checked my stash and I only have a few 5/16-18 gib bolts. I’m pretty sure they will 1/4-20, my General planer has the 1/4” size.
            Do you have a Greg’s Distributers near you? They probably will have one. Ask for a square head set screw. Something like 1/4-20 X 3/8” should get you close. You might end up having to cut the threads shorter.

            Fastenal might be another source.
            Didnt know you had a "Stash"

            • “The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes.”Winston Churchill

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            • Thread Continues Below...

            • #7

              Re: General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

              those are harder than a normal off the shelf bolt and technically it should be the sme hardness as the original .
              being practical you have all the others there and it seems unlikely. If the bolt is stripped you sure dont want it flying out so Id rather leave it off than have there if the threads are that bad.

              1/4 national coarse is 1/4" coarse is 20 threads per inch , national fine is 28TPI
              there is such a thing as 1/4 " 24 although it's less common.

              I think the machine is actually metric but those bars may have been carried over and could actually be a standard size.
              I replaced one on a planer here and I filed the markings off the head so it is flat otherwise it interferes with what it does. It was an older machine and it was a standard size if I recall right. now I need a different wrench for that one bolt but otherwise it's ok for now.

              just remove one of the good ones and lay it along beside some of the bolts you have, when it matches you will see soon enough because any other thread wont be able to mate up when you compare the threads side by side. if it's metric you'll know soon enough.

              I dont think you'll find it to be a weird thread but could be metric. 6 mm is close to 1/4" but It might be 5/16th not 1/4"

              although it is obsolete, some are in the process of changing over to the spiral heads and so they wont be using the bars any more so you could offer to buy their old bars if they were happy with the spiral head and didn't plan to ever go back.

              if you want to repair it , there is a sort of thread insert that is a one piece thing , you thread to a larger size then locktite it in and also there are little pins you can drive in . everyone jumps to helicoils but there isnt; a lot of thread depth you need a special helicoil tap and they are ok for some things but sometimes I like this type better.

              in a pinch Ive made my own , just thread in a larger bolt make it fit tight in the thread , use red locktite file it all flat then redril to the old size. That works in some places but that is a bit critical and you only have so much metal there to work with.

              here's a link just to get a mental picture of what those look like. You do need a certain amount of "meat" to work with so it may or may not have enough to use on in that application. you need to be able to thread to a larger size but then you may be able to restore the threads in the bar that way if needed. a helicoil may require less material because it is thinner. I'd rather not use those where the bolt is turned so frequently, they are ok if the bolt is more permanent but they are basically like a coil of wire and can fail if you keep needing to turn that bolt.

              note that some have 4 pins. you tighten them in then when you hammer the pins in they are in there forever.

              https://www.google.com/search?q=thre...iw=762&bih=358




              usually if the bolt is damaged the threads are too , you might get by with just chasing the threads but check if the bolt is wiggly because you dont want it to fly.

              I suppose you could use braising or welding to fill and re tap it, but then you may also see some warpage of the bar from the heat.


              if you remove one bolt you may notice that the vibration increases because you changed the balance. so try to keep the mass about equal if you can.

              nothing wrong with making a felt pen mark on the machine just to remind you which way is loosen. I know in that application it is very easy to look at how it clamps the wrong way and tighten where you should loosen because it presses upon the head of the bolt and bolts dont normally tighten using the surface on the head like they do there.

              If you have to use a bolt that isn't so hard then the work to strip it will be less so go easy on that one then. If you can use a grade 8 and filt the lines off the head it might be close to the hardness. the head will weigh a little more but you might get away with it.

              nicer if you can do it so you dont need a different wrench for that one bolt but if you, do not the end of the world.
              Last edited by stickman; 04-07-2021, 03:20 PM.

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              • #8

                Re: General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

                Thanks for all the suggestions. I will try a few of them tonight.

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                • #9

                  Re: General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

                  Stickman the reason I did not suggest the Keensert type thread repair is that they would require too much material be drilled out to thread and install making the gib weak. They are a great thread repair when you have enough meat to work with.

                  Pete

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                  • #10

                    Re: General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

                    I bought a SPARE set of Gib bars for mine exactly for this reason! Got them from a (Kyle) Guy on Kijiji. Apparently he has and makes lots of the parts for the General 130.
                    I posted the info in the Vintage tool section. Under " General 130 Planer Parts"

                    They look as new!
                    Here is a cut/paste of my post. not sure if the Kijiji post will work or not. If you want his personal contact info let me know.

                    "I responded to an ad on Kijiji in London where a guy was selling some new Gib bars for the General Planer 130 mentioned.
                    Nicely done . Apparently he has some other parts as well as some he can make (CNC) Brass gears etc.
                    Just thought I would pass on the info for anyone interested
                    Guys name is Kyle and he is situated in both Cambridge and Woodstock. See ad attached
                    https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/l...mps/1553989988
                    Mike
                    Evan Dunville likes this.

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                    • #11

                      Re: General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

                      Originally posted by Evan Dunville View Post
                      Thanks for all the suggestions. I will try a few of them tonight.
                      I would take Richard up on his offer.
                      Evan Dunville likes this.
                      Mike @ Buck Lake

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                      • #12

                        Re: General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

                        Originally posted by QC Inspector View Post
                        Stickman the reason I did not suggest the Keensert type thread repair is that they would require too much material be drilled out to thread and install making the gib weak. They are a great thread repair when you have enough meat to work with.

                        Pete
                        yes , and I'm not arguing that point. welding it up and re drilling might be the best option. if you consider the stress that part has upon it it is mostly just jacking against the bolts and holding the blade.. Indeed there is more than one way to tackle the issue. if it distorted a little during welding it probably wouldn't be too hard to straighten again anyway. . Id likely take that route myself but I can't assume the owner has that sort of experience. a machine shop or welder or millwright could assist perhaps.

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                        • #13

                          Re: General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

                          I have a replacement 1/4 20 NC square head set screw you are welcome to. I also have a 5/16 square head set screw. From the picture I think the thread is too coarse for metric thread. I think the best and safest way to repair the threads in the gib would be with a Helicoil or Thredsert or equivalent. They are pricey as they require a special tap-I can lend you my tap if you like. John

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                          • #14

                            Re: General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

                            Originally posted by mikeddd View Post

                            I would take Richard up on his offer.
                            I think that's the plan, Richard has helped me on a few other repairs in the past.

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                            • #15

                              Re: General 130 Planer Bad Gib Bolt

                              Pretty sure I will be selling my original 1995 General 130 cutter head complete along with 2 sets of HSS knives as soon as I'm done and tested my new Byrd Shelix upgrade ( week-week and a half ) If any have interest... very well taken care of always in a heated shop
                              Cheers!
                              Last edited by SiWood; 04-08-2021, 10:53 AM. Reason: edit

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