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Beaver 3800 rebuild

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  • Beaver 3800 rebuild

    Good Morning...

    I just started my very first rebuild project. An original 3800 Beaver, with a few bumps and bruises. However she's pre-Rockwell and even comes with a set of Beaver branded legs.
    3473a4d_20.jpg

    Photo-0507.jpg
    The Beaver crowd will automatically be drawn to the guard. Which in fact is from a General jointer, (second pic added for clarity ). Never fear though, I just happen to have a replacement...
    Photo-0497.jpg
    I found that guard in an old box of tools that used to belong to my grandfather. He got into cabinet making after WW2, and after his passing, he gave my father some of his old tools. Whatever happened to the rest of the jointer, I'll never know, but at least I have a authentic replacement. Even though it needs some TLC of it's own. At any rate that guard has been in the attic of the family home collecting dust for 30yrs+, and most of the joy I'm sure to pull out of this project will be centered around repurposing some of my grandfather's history.

    Within the first few mins of the disassembly I started finding less than desireable fixes by the previous owner. The guard being the most obvious problem. However I don't have any pics available so I'll leave that till later. What's troubling me more is the condition of the caps that have all the fence pivoting mechanisms attached to them.
    Photo-0504-1.jpg
    One of the bolts used to fasten the fence's control arms is of the wrong thread pitch and has completely flattened the cap's internal threading. 3 of the 4 bolt locations suffer the same damage from cross threading. Worse yet, once I took the fence assembly apart, I found that one internal binding post on each cap had been broken.
    Photo-0527.jpg
    I did find a single remnant of one of the posts. What happened to the other who knows.

    So as it stands, I'm still loosening parts up, and have a boat load of paint removal ahead of me. Right now I'm at a lost with what to do with these caps. Feel free to post suggestions.

    That's all for now... I'll update as things progress, or when the Callander FoundryFairy leaves me some new parts under my pillow.

    Thanks for watching

  • #2

    Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

    Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

    Second day of disassembly/cleaning and it keeps getting uglier I'm afraid...

    As I had the bulk of the fence parts soaking in the parts washer, I focused my attention to removing the cutting head. Little did I know that paint job the previous owner had done, managed to creep it's way inbetween the bearing pins and main casting. The result was an extremely difficult extraction of the non pulley side bearing pin. It took a combination of penetrating fluid, a gentle application of heat, a couple of pry bars, and an impact screwdriver on the pin/bearing's preload screw, (which also acts as a jacking screw for removal).
    Photo-0528.jpg
    ...and the causality of war:
    Photo-0530.jpg
    The cage for the above bearing was mangled beyond repair, and the pin it's seated on was deformed by the jacking screw while being forcibly removed. For any that may fall into the same boat. The bearing is a Timken A2047, and is still available from what I've been able to find. The online price seems to float around $25usd, but like all things US when shipping to Canada, the cost to bring one over the border is ~$30. So, I have several emails out to various bearing suppliers in hopes to find a slightly realistic shipping quote.

    The bearing pin is still useable but I'm unhappy with it's less than original appearance. I do have the means to machine a replacement, but the deeper I go into this project the more I find that needs attention greater than some sandpaper and lipstick/mascara touch up.

    The list is as follows:
    -The clamping pin that holds the horizontal position of the fence is stripped.
    -The linkage for the fence that's under direct clamping force from the locking handle is bent badly.
    -Most of the drilled/tapped holes who's bolts are within easy reach of a wrench have been stripped or deformed.
    -The foremention fence linkage caps have internal mounts busted.
    -The fence vertical positioning handle is completely missing.
    -My grandfather's guard needs an unknown dimensioned cap fab'd and welded on.
    -The cutter head bearings need replacement.

    But other than that, the rest of the project should be easy peasy...lol

    Comment


    • #3

      Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

      Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

      a frustrating rebuild

      im surprised that the bearings were'nt easily available, try motion canada or canada bearing, a local store is your best option. if you dont have one nearby, let me know. a buddy of mine works for the motion canada store in sarnia and its a block from my place

      stripped or deformed threads can be repaired by carefully using the next larger size even a very slightly larger metric thread. the broken mounting bosses in the fence cylinder is more tricky. id try the rebuild with just two bolts at each end of the cylinder and just be careful, afterall how often do we change the angle of the fence anyway!!

      good luck and keep us posted
      Last edited by stevem; 09-12-2011, 06:58 AM.
      my shop is a beaver lodge
      steve, sarnia, ont

      sigpic

      1940's Beaver Jointer

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

        Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

        Originally posted by stevem View Post
        im surprised that the bearings were'nt easily available, try motion canada or canada bearing, a local store is your best option.
        Well my first efforts were made online, and I did find sources rather quickly. In fact I just received a reply from an ebay seller south of the border. He's willing to sell me the bearing for $13 each but wants $32 to ship the 1.25"x1.25"x.34" box . I managed to sneak a phone call to my local Canadian Bearing dealer before they closed today. According to them Timken doesn't offer that bearing anymore but he managed to cross reference a NGK that's available at $38 a piece with a 3 day turn around.

        stripped or deformed threads can be repaired by carefully using the next larger size even a very slightly larger metric thread. the broken mounting bosses in the fence cylinder is more tricky. id try the rebuild with just two bolts at each end of the cylinder and just be careful, afterall how often do we change the angle of the fence anyway!!
        I'm very fortunate to have access to full machine shop and obviously all the tools you'd find in one. So, getting around the deformed/stripped holes is easy enough, but just something I was hoping to avoid. My first impluse was to just ignore the busted mounting bosses and do exactly what you've suggested. I'm going to have some time on my hands before I'm at the reassembly stage, so I'll have some time to ponder possible options.

        I did some light sanding on the tables and found some nasty pitting in a few spots. I'm going to talk to the senior millwright on staff and see if we could run the whole jointer on the surface grinder.

        Comment


        • #5

          Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

          Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

          i guess i was lucky with my 3800, just 30 yrs in a hay pile!!
          the bearings in mine just got a cleaning and repack, but i'll check with my buddy at motion canada today, we just got back from new brunswick last night
          my shop is a beaver lodge
          steve, sarnia, ont

          sigpic

          1940's Beaver Jointer

          Comment


          • #6

            Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

            Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

            I probably could have gotten away with just a cleaning and repack as well Steve, but the one bearing I've pictured was mangled during the fight to remove it's pin from the main casting. The other pulley side bearing is in great shape. However, maybe it's my "maintainance guy" attitude, but if I'm changing one, I have a need to do both.

            Thanks for the offer to check with your friend... As it is, I already have the cheap bearings from the states on the way. A friend from the states offered to relay them for me, so I'm saving a ton of dough.

            Comment


            • #7

              Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

              Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

              i did check with motion canada, sarnia store has them in stock, $12 bucks

              you shouldnt have to replace the bearing surfaces(if you even can), just the cage and rollers. clean and check the races carefuly, pack the cage with wheel bearing grease and reassemble
              my shop is a beaver lodge
              steve, sarnia, ont

              sigpic

              1940's Beaver Jointer

              Comment


              • #8

                Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                Originally posted by stevem View Post
                i did check with motion canada, sarnia store has them in stock, $12 bucks
                The Timken, or the cross referenced NGK...? That's quite the price difference from Canadian Bearing's $38...

                Comment


                • #9

                  Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                  Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                  im not sure, they may have been an import

                  get good ones though, ive always replaced bearings with top quality north american or european parts, motion canada has both good bearings and asian imports. bearing failure can wreck irreplaceble parts easily
                  my shop is a beaver lodge
                  steve, sarnia, ont

                  sigpic

                  1940's Beaver Jointer

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                    Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                    ..And I'm Back In Business
                    IMAG0033.jpg

                    It took some time to get them but I finally got the oem replacements for the cutting head bearings. Special thanks to my US buddy Glenn, who was kind enough to be my shipping mule for these items. With his help I managed to get the replacements in hand for under $40.

                    In the mean while I managed to get the large castings free of the horrific green paint the previous owner saw fit to use. There are some odds and ends that still need to go through the parts washer, but I'm a few short hours away from actually starting the fun part of a rebuild project.

                    So a quick question to those in the know... Does anyone see any benefit to me running the jointer through my shop's surface grinder to 1) Get that ultra clean working surface. and 2) Ensure that the tables are perfectly co-planer...? There is some slightly deeper than surface rust penetration on the outfeed table. I'm just concerned that using a orbital sander till I'm free of rust may create some dips/waves. Figure I could just adjust each table to it's max travel and run them through the surface grinder. What do ya think..? Bad or good idea?

                    Thanks for watching

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                      Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                      For the rust
                      Soak in a citric acid solution over night I use about 1 heaping teaspoon per gallon of water it will remove the rust. you can see how well it works here http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com...28pic-heavy%29if you look at the table you can see that there is some staining left but the original surface is rust free. no need to sand or grind. you can always do that later if needed.
                      sigpic
                      Jerome
                      Canada's South Coast
                      Port Colborne On.
                      Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
                      Benjamin Franklin

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                        Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                        Nice work on the Jos Cote Jerome...

                        By chance do you have a source for the citric acid you're suggesting...? I've never heard of it before.

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                          Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                          i wouldnt regrind the tables unless you really need to

                          my old tables are not perfect either, but they are perfectly coplaner

                          reassemble the tables on the base and check

                          glad to hear its coming together nicely now, remember anything made of cast iron or aluminum can be repaired, remade whatever, plastic bits that are broken are garbage, and there is no plastic bits on an old tool like that one
                          my shop is a beaver lodge
                          steve, sarnia, ont

                          sigpic

                          1940's Beaver Jointer

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                            Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                            I was just eyeballing those rougher patches on the tables... The pitting is noticebly deeper in these spots. If I was to hazard a guess it looks as though a leaky roof may be culprit.

                            Right now I'm not too sure what I'll do. I need to finish cleaning everything up and getting some paint on these parts before the exposed castings start to rust back up. Most likely I'll take a fine grit to the tables and see how bad it really is before getting serious and consider any form of grinding.

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                              Re: Beaver 3800 rebuild

                              Citric acid can be found in the canning section of your local super market, drug store or bulk barn
                              sigpic
                              Jerome
                              Canada's South Coast
                              Port Colborne On.
                              Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
                              Benjamin Franklin

                              Comment

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