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  • Cherry with WB lacquer

    I love the look of cherry with an oil based finish, especially after it has aged a while. But what if I want to spray a WB lacquer? What should I use before the lacquer to get that look?
    Cheers
    Randy
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  • #2

    Re: Cherry with WB lacquer

    After trying a number of WB products ( for safety, health and other reasons) rather than oil, the closest to an oil finish I've found is General Finish Enduro- Var.

    It has an warm, amber tone and seems to accentuate the grain a bit more than other WB finishes ( that just seem to sit on top and lay there with a plastic sort of look) .

    Low VOC, available in different sheens, not too stinky, dries reasonably quick and produces a very durable finish.

    Is a bit pricey but worth it in my view.

    It's an option.




    Apparently, it can be sprayed over danish oil or an oil finish but in my experience if it is not COMPLETELY dry the results are not good.



    If you decide to order larger quantities try Jeff at Wood Essence. He's been very easy to deal with.
    Last edited by stotto; 01-19-2021, 10:44 AM.
    Paul O in Paris likes this.
    http://www.woodmonkey.ca

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    • #3

      Re: Cherry with WB lacquer

      I have not tried the Enduro Var Stan mentions but have heard/read similar observations.
      I have stuck with Target EM2000 when a waterbased over cherry was requested and would usually spray a weak solvent based dye directly onto the wood/veneer, then seal it, then apply the EM2000. The dye gave the cherry "life" and the EM2000 has an amber tone so it doesn't look too lifeless. When not in a rush, I have applied a simple oil instead of the dye, but it takes a week or two to cure enough to take the waterbased without adhesion or "clouding" problems. I have also used straight stain base (solvent type) diluted about 30% to 50% with thinners. They all work.
      I have found that cherry coated with waterbased doesn't develop the same tones we associate with aging cherry under oil or solvent based finishes, but putting the finished piece in a sunny spot helps a little. I have also heard that putting the wood in a similar location before finishing will give deeper colours but have never tried it, mainly because of the time involved.
      Hope that gives you some options
      Paul

      I forgot: shellac is also good at bringing out the features. I have found regular to be more effective at enhancement than dewaxed, but it has to be fully cured before applying the waterbased and then the first coat (or two) of topcoat have to be really thin to avoid adhesion issues.
      Last edited by Paul O in Paris; 01-19-2021, 02:08 PM.

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      • #4

        Re: Cherry with WB lacquer

        Originally posted by Paul O in Paris View Post
        I have not tried the Enduro Var Stan mentions but have heard/read similar observations.
        I have stuck with Target EM2000 when a waterbased over cherry was requested and would usually spray a weak solvent based dye directly onto the wood/veneer, then seal it, then apply the EM2000. The dye gave the cherry "life" and the EM2000 has an amber tone so it doesn't look too lifeless. When not in a rush, I have applied a simple oil instead of the dye, but it takes a week or two to cure enough to take the waterbased without adhesion or "clouding" problems. I have also used straight stain base (solvent type) diluted about 30% to 50% with thinners. They all work.
        I have found that cherry coated with waterbased doesn't develop the same tones we associate with aging cherry under oil or solvent based finishes, but putting the finished piece in a sunny spot helps a little. I have also heard that putting the wood in a similar location before finishing will give deeper colours but have never tried it, mainly because of the time involved.
        Hope that gives you some options
        Paul
        Would a coat of boiled linseed oil, left to dry for a couple of weeks, accept a WB lacquer without issues?
        Cheers
        Randy

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        • #5

          Re: Cherry with WB lacquer

          As long as the oil is fully dried (especially in the deeper grain) there should be no problem. Just apply the first coat of wb really thin and let it cure. If it goes cloudy/or starts to blister then the oil wasn't dry enough. A coat of dewaxed shellac applied over the cured oil would act as a sealer/barrier coat, but it's another step and takes a bit more time.

          Paul

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          • #6

            Re: Cherry with WB lacquer

            Randy, you do not mention why you wish to use a solvent free WB finish instead of your tried and true favourite oil based finish that gives the look you want.

            If (as I assume) its for eco-friendly and or health reasons then I applaud your intention but there may be no victory to be had.
            All the solutions to the problem mentioned above involve solvent based dyes or solvent based shellac or solvent based penetrating oils as a first step .......while adding another step or two, plus (potentially) lots more time to get a result that by all accounts will not be quite as good as the one you are trying to emulate.
            Using solvent based products so you can use a solvent WB product on top seems to invalidate the overall objective somewhat in terms of solvent-free-ness (if you see what I mean.)

            There is a time and a place for solvent based finishes ......I would suggest that this may be one of them.

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            • #7

              Re: Cherry with WB lacquer

              Originally posted by Julian View Post
              Randy, you do not mention why you wish to use a solvent free WB finish instead of your tried and true favourite oil based finish that gives the look you want.

              If (as I assume) its for eco-friendly and or health reasons then I applaud your intention but there may be no victory to be had.
              All the solutions to the problem mentioned above involve solvent based dyes or solvent based shellac or solvent based penetrating oils as a first step .......while adding another step or two, plus (potentially) lots more time to get a result that by all accounts will not be quite as good as the one you are trying to emulate.
              Using solvent based products so you can use a solvent WB product on top seems to invalidate the overall objective somewhat in terms of solvent-free-ness (if you see what I mean.)

              There is a time and a place for solvent based finishes ......I would suggest that this may be one of them.
              I have a spray system but have never sprayed solvent based. Well I did spray some NC as a test once and the smell resulted in an edict from my wife (we have an attached garage/workshop). It seems that oil based polyurethane doesn't offend as much (?) so I am limited to brushing/wiping that when using a solvent based, which never results in as refined of a look as spraying, at least not for me.
              Cheers
              Randy

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              • #8

                Re: Cherry with WB lacquer

                Originally posted by Julian View Post
                All the solutions to the problem mentioned above involve solvent based dyes or solvent based shellac or solvent based penetrating oils as a first step ........
                Julian, I definitely agree that using solvent based dyes/stains/sealers etc under a waterbased topcoat defeats the objective of going solvent free, but in 20+ years in the refinishing business I have (as I am sure you can appreciate) been asked to do a lot of strange things. I must admit that many of the steps I outlined previously began as my own "experiments" to try and improve the look of waterbased finishes on cherry, walnut and mahogany, but especially cherry. Obviously if the job was spec'd as LEEDS compliant then this approach wasn't even considered, but I had commercial work (office furniture mostly) where office managers and even the occupants of the offices wanted to try a waterbased topcoat for various reasons. In the early days when waterbased was pretty crappy I had a few disasters and had to redo several pieces, which was frustrating for both the extra time spent and loss of revenue. I made up a series of sample boards based on my "experiments" to try to improve the "look" and took these to show the different combinations I could offer then let the customers decide (and sign off on it too).

                I would definitely agree that there is a time and a place for solvent finishes and to be honest, I think cherry would be in a class of one in that regard, but for an enthusiast working in their garage, there are a few work-arounds to the fumes/flammability issues if they want to use spray techniques.

                Paul

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