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Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

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  • Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

    Hey folks..

    I have received so much help here with every aspect of starting to learn the lathe I thought I would ask an opinion question...

    What's peoples preference for sealing up end grain on logs to dry? Over the last few months I have got some black walnut, cherry and large amount of mystery wood with some awesome colour. When I got the big batch of free wood. I did a quick search for how to seal. There are lots of products out there. But one that I had easily available was wood glue. I started with some Gorilla wood glue for the first batch and then bought a gallon jug of Titebond 2.

    I am sure there are better options and I used this as its what I had on hand. What do you guys recommend? I see WoodChuckers, Lee Valley etc have some products.

    As a follow up to this, how long to I have to wait. Its been 2 weeks and I am getting impatient ;-)

    Cheers and thanks!

    Mike

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  • #2

    Re: Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

    Anchor seal is the most used product to seal wood that works, however you have to do this right away on wet/green wood before it starts to split, (Splits only get worse, sealing does not help for that).

    Another thing I have used that works, wrap a plastic bag on the end of the wood and keep it tight against the log with tape or string.

    However all this is only good for a limited time, log round can not be kept for long and also not dried in log form, it will split.

    Keep the wood out of the sun and wind.

    So here two pictures of what I did, as I had a whole lot of Black Walnut logs, I did seal all the logs that I could not turn in the next few days, and then also wrapped a bunch also with plastic over the sealed logs, and after a couple months this is what I got.

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    Last edited by Leo Van Der Loo; 04-16-2021, 08:50 PM.

    Have fun and take care
    Leo Van Der Loo

    Comment


    • #3

      Re: Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

      Thanks Leo,

      So I should be cutting these down, removing the pith and re-sealing? Or rough out and seal, or paper bag?


      Mike

      Originally posted by Leo Van Der Loo View Post
      Anchor seal is the most used product to seal wood that works, however you have to do this right away on wet/green wood before it starts to split, (Splits only get worse, sealing does not help for that).

      Another thing I have used that works, wrap a plastic bag on the end of the wood and keep it tight against the log with tape or string.

      However all this is only good for a limited time, log round can not be kept for long and also not dried in log form, it will split.

      Keep the wood out of the sun and wind.

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

        Well I went and did some reading/viewing on the topic. Its not something I have spent any time on and I wish I had earlier...

        We started off buying blanks from Woodchuckers. Not quite local but close enough to make it there once in a while. There prices are not bad but wood is so plentiful locally why should I pay for it ;-)

        So if the research I have done is good.... I should cut out the pith and rough out the bowl or product to be made. Aim for even thickness and store to let dry.

        Thanks again Leo for your post and informative answers.

        Mike

        Originally posted by bedpan View Post
        Thanks Leo,
        So I should be cutting these down, removing the pith and re-sealing? Or rough out and seal, or paper bag?
        Mike

        Comment


        • #5

          Re: Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

          Originally posted by bedpan View Post
          Thanks Leo,

          So I should be cutting these down, removing the pith and re-sealing? Or rough out and seal, or paper bag?


          Mike


          Cutting the pith out does help, as does sealing before and after, the best is to rough turn and paper bag them, you can also seal those rough turned ones, try different ways, and learn from that what works or not from that.

          Have fun and take care
          Leo Van Der Loo

          Comment


          • #6

            Re: Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

            Since your logs are cut to length it is too late for this but it never hurts to make your log length the diameter plus about 4" or more. This allows you a couple of inches at each end to discard if cracking starts. (The diameter of the log is the largest round bowl diameter possible.) To go a bit further with this method, don't cut the log into lengths until necessary but this has to be balanced with being able to move the logs.
            Rough turning ASAP is the best method.
            billh

            Comment

            • Thread Continues Below...

            • #7

              Re: Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

              I always treat new fresh cut wood in a manner that allows some latitude later on. So I think bowls and hollow forms and crotch pieces. I always rip a plank out of the log that's at least 2" thick and centered on the pith. This gives me a nice slab of perfectly quarter sawn lumber for use on other projects. The remaining 2 pieces then get end sealed and stood vertical on 2 pressure treated 2x4s allowing air to pass between them. The wood is stacked on the North side of my house so there's no sun. The stack goes 2 logs high and then gets loosely covered with a tarp allowing air to circulate through the pile. I stand them end down so sap goes to the bottom. If you lay the pieces down the sap cam accumulate on 1 side and make the log really out of balance. Also standing end down seems to promote spalting, why I don't know. I find I can go about 2 years without any really major cracks but then they will definitely happen. So it gives me 2 years to work my way through the pile and cut blanks which are then sealed again and moved into a shed or my damp cellar. After that it's the turn twice procedure or turn to thin wall and finish and let it warp. Of course Covid has now stopped all production because markets are closed so i think I'll be giving away a lot of firewood. No point in making stuff to pile it up and let it collect dust.
              If you have big diameter logs and don't want to save the quarter sawn planks then rip the log into 3 segments making sure the pith is removed as much as possible. I find the 3 segments split less because the annual rings are shorter and that"s where the most movement occurs during drying.
              Pete
              Last edited by Roundhead; 04-17-2021, 12:10 PM.

              Comment


              • #8

                Re: Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

                Thanks Bill,

                These logs are all just free-bees and this is how they were cut. Who ever cut them made about double the number of cuts with his/her chainsaw then needed to be made. I was shaking my head when I picked it up. There was nothing longer then about 14" and some as small as 4". For wood they gave away after then cut it down I have no idea why they cut it so small!

                Anyways. I carved out the pith of one of the smaller logs on my bandsaw today. My first real cut. Not sure if the blade is dull but it took a long time. I have some major learning to do on the bandsaw still. Then I turned down a small bowl leaving it about 3/4" thick. Maybe to thin... But I was having fun ;-) As time allows I will keep doing more!

                Originally posted by billh View Post
                Since your logs are cut to length it is too late for this but it never hurts to make your log length the diameter plus about 4" or more. This allows you a couple of inches at each end to discard if cracking starts. (The diameter of the log is the largest round bowl diameter possible.) To go a bit further with this method, don't cut the log into lengths until necessary but this has to be balanced with being able to move the logs.
                Rough turning ASAP is the best method.
                billh
                Thanks Pete!

                I am not sure I will have enough wood on hand but I like the idea. The North side of my house is already my stacking point for wood as it arrives so maybe I will try this with a few logs and see what happens.

                Originally posted by Roundhead View Post
                I always treat new fresh cut wood in a manner that allows some latitude later on. So I think bowls and hollow forms and crotch pieces. I always rip a plank out of the log that's at least 2" thick and centered on the pith. This gives me a nice slab of perfectly quarter sawn lumber for use on other projects. The remaining 2 pieces then get end sealed and stood vertical on 2 pressure treated 2x4s allowing air to pass between them. The wood is stacked on the North side of my house so there's no sun. The stack goes 2 logs high and then gets loosely covered with a tarp allowing air to circulate through the pile. I stand them end down so sap goes to the bottom. If you lay the pieces down the sap cam accumulate on 1 side and make the log really out of balance. Also standing end down seems to promote spalting, why I don't know. I find I can go about 2 years without any really major cracks but then they will definitely happen. So it gives me 2 years to work my way through the pile and cut blanks which are then sealed again and moved into a shed or my damp cellar. After that it's the turn twice procedure or turn to thin wall and finish and let it warp. Of course Covid has now stopped all production because markets are closed so i think I'll be giving away a lot of firewood. No point in making stuff to pile it up and let it collect dust.
                If you have big diameter logs and don't want to save the quarter sawn planks then rip the log into 3 segments making sure the pith is removed as much as possible. I find the 3 segments split less because the annual rings are shorter and that"s where the most movement occurs during drying.
                Pete

                Cheers Leo,

                I am trying my own thing mostly. Watching and reading and see what works for me. The reality is I need to get better with my support tools; the bandsaw and chainsaw and I will see where that leaves me. I have been off most of this week so I have had some time between projects to play. Starting monday I am back to work and only have a few hours here and there.

                Originally posted by Leo Van Der Loo View Post

                Cutting the pith out does help, as does sealing before and after, the best is to rough turn and paper bag them, you can also seal those rough turned ones, try different ways, and learn from that what works or not from that.

                Comment


                • #9

                  Re: Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

                  Bill for regular dry wood that people use, the bands have too fine and more teeth than you do want to saw wet logs/chunks, most turners use as I also do, 1/2 wide with 3 or 4 TPI (teeth per Inch, and a wider set as well, also cutting with the grain is harder than across the grain, the same counts for the Chainsaw, I get my bands at R&D bandsaws, I use the 1/2" Furniture band with 3 TPI it is good for wet wood sawing.

                  The best way to cut slabs with the chainsaw is with the log horizontal and the saw cutting on a slight angle, it will cut long curls that can jam the saw if you hold the saw horizontal when cutting, that's why you cut on a angle.

                  When cutting a slab from the center to take the pith out, it works best if you make the cut not all the way through but stop short by two inches or so then the next cut as that way the log doesn't roll over after the first cut, then cut the first cut through and use that outside piece to block the other part to make the next through cut.

                  Yes I do know of the cut too short pieces of nice logs, but it's free wood so I didn't complain, like with the Sugar Maple cut up next door, or the Small Black Walnut logs where they wanted a bowl for the wood.

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                  It is easier if you can cut the tree down yourself and leave the pieces long, like the Siberian elm and the Mulberry logs.

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                  This is the way I cut the larger pieces for bowl blanks and center slabs, log is placed on a stump, made the 3 cuts to 2 inches from the bottom, after that made finish cuts.

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                  And this is sometimes how I did receive pieces of wood, say thank You and use all you can from it ;--))

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                  Also like these White Ash logs where I had to cut the tree in a gulley and then rol the pieces up to my vehicle, I could not do this anymore, and they where heavy then also, but got it all home, this is from before the Emerald Ash borer.

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                  Last edited by Leo Van Der Loo; 04-17-2021, 10:39 PM.

                  Have fun and take care
                  Leo Van Der Loo

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

                    Not a turner but all my lumber fresh off the mill I seal the end grain with old latex house paint.Seems to work well and is economical.

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Re: Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

                      Yes, latex paint is an option, in fact anything that will slow down the moisture migration from the end-grain will help but I think the consensus among turners is that Anchorseal works better.
                      billh

                      Comment

                      • Thread Continues Below...

                      • #12

                        Re: Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

                        Originally posted by Adam R View Post
                        Not a turner but all my lumber fresh off the mill I seal the end grain with old latex house paint.Seems to work well and is economical.
                        Yes I know hat some will use Latex paint, others use white glue, not because it is better, but because it is cheaper, some used candle wax. heated in a pan, all for the same reason.
                        Though the way I look at it is, how much is the wood worth, if it splits the loss is or could be a lot more valuable than the pennies saved using the other things like paint.
                        Some say it works and some say it doesn't, I don't know, I've never used it, I do use anchor seal and/or plastic bags if I am not able to process the wood today or tomorrow, it is still the best to use it right away when turning wood, but sometimes you get too much to do that.

                        A haul of Beechwood.

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                        Black Walnut first load of 3
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                        Large chunks of American Elm.
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                        Last edited by Leo Van Der Loo; 04-18-2021, 12:54 PM.

                        Have fun and take care
                        Leo Van Der Loo

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Re: Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

                          I do not understand why the log has to be chunked up right at the start with numerous ends to seal. Why not RIP out a long baulk from the log with only two ends to seal?

                          Simple Beam Machine and RIP Chain in the saw will easily work to cut Baulks. Then store the baulks and cut off as needed! This way it would be easier to maintain an even moisture en environment.

                          Next l'd suggest turning the wet blank to finish dimensions. Apply the stain,dye with alcohol,heat, and sand smooth. Then do the same thing again but add the finish oil with lots of alcohol and heat. Burnishing with a leather strip impregnated with honing compound will add heat and make for a s.ooth finish. Then consider the turning done. Perhaps buff it well with a wax.

                          Probably not a procedure used by many as it deviates from the normal.
                          Egon
                          from
                          The South Shore, Nova Scotia

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Re: Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

                            Originally posted by Egon View Post
                            I do not understand why the log has to be chunked up right at the start with numerous ends to seal. Why not RIP out a long baulk from the log with only two ends to seal?

                            Simple Beam Machine and RIP Chain in the saw will easily work to cut Baulks. Then store the baulks and cut off as needed! This way it would be easier to maintain an even moisture en environment.

                            Next l'd suggest turning the wet blank to finish dimensions. Apply the stain,dye with alcohol,heat, and sand smooth. Then do the same thing again but add the finish oil with lots of alcohol and heat. Burnishing with a leather strip impregnated with honing compound will add heat and make for a s.ooth finish. Then consider the turning done. Perhaps buff it well with a wax.

                            Probably not a procedure used by many as it deviates from the normal.
                            I power sand my wood turning I also have been using bobbins on on an electric drill to sand some parts of my rocking chairs, I bought an oscillating bobbin sander to do some of the work and one thing that is very clear is if the wood gets hot during the sanding a lot of surface cracking happens, I guess its obvious as we all know that wood moves with a change in temperature so that cracking is a result of the wood being hot on the surface and shrinking so cracks appear these are cracks not open so there is no gap but always lots of them, then if the bowl becomes a thin wall those cracks are a weak point.
                            I find the best way is to avoid any heat build up, I know it is possible to heat up a wet bowl blank in the microwave but then that is heated throughout the thickness of the wood it is not localized or just on the surface, this too is not always successful.
                            A friend of mine gave me some very old wood that is very wet (buried on a river bank for possibly hundreds of years) we have both turned thick walled bowls, he left his in a cool cupboard at floor level I have mine in a brown paper bag the bag is now wet but I have no cracking as yet, slow drying, time will tell its story.

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Re: Sealing Logs and chunks of wood - What's you flavour?

                              The heat comes in conjunction with the dye, oil and alcohol. They all have to work together.

                              A couple of pictures of small maple turned a few weeks ago from newly cut maple tree. Just a small one.

                              The longer spindle type was turned green. The larger rectangular one was soaked in alcohol. The two smaller rectangular ones were soaked in food dye and alcohol. The little short cup type was turned green. They have been sitting on a hot water radiator for about three weeks now. There are no cracks.

                              Egon
                              from
                              The South Shore, Nova Scotia

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