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I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

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  • I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

    I'm doing a big reno for my client. Third or fourth job for the folks.

    We order a few grand worth of counter tops in solid surface stone product. They send a guy out to do templates. He shows up with a computer gizmo. I swear I can give him the dimensions over the phone. On one unit the left end is against the wall, right end hangs over a cabinet gable and a sink is in the middle. AND I have the sink on site to do an undermount install. Simple huh? This computer gizzie and program is probably 5 or 6 grand. They screw up the length, the width and the sink placement o/c. AND........... they want me to pay for the replacement/correction! Oh one more thing. One end of the top is 1/4 inch wider than the opposite end and it's 3/8ths of an inch narrower than the template.

    If you know me at all,,,,,,,,,guess who's paying for the new top.

    Message: Be careful out there folks.
    "Do it Right!"
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  • #2

    Re: I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

    why did you change the cabinets cases after they did the measurements???
    Jerome
    Canada's South Coast

    Port Colborne On.
    Every loaf of bread is a tragic tale of grains that could've become beer.......but didn't....

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    • #3

      Re: I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

      Was it the gizmo mounted on a tripod with the long line they pull out to the various corners and press a button to note where everything is? They did that on a job I'm finishing up and it was perfect but looked like it was really easy to mess up.
      Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club.

      http://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

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      • #4

        Re: I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

        Rusty, to really screwup requires a computer....LOL

        Sorry to hear you’re stuck with the mess.....Rod
        Redneck Albertan likes this.
        Work is the curse of the riding class.

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        • #5

          Re: I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

          They did my countertops with that kind of setup. 20 grand for one of those.

          Sounds like a shabby business, unprofessional for the stone to be off-measurement. It's a good thing you didn't give them measurements over the phone, otherwise you WOULD have been stuck paying for the replacement. They can't in their right mind expect someone else top pay for their mistake...it makes no sense to me that they would even mention this. I've almost never regretted contracting out jobs that I'm really not qualified to do. If ever there's a problem, it's taken care of, no stress on me.
          Frank
          SPCHT

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          • #6

            Re: I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

            That is why I do not have anything to do with ordering the counter tops. It is strictly between the home owner and counter top people. I make sure everything is in place when they template. Touch wood but nobody has any problems yet.

            Brian
            stotto likes this.
            If your dreams don't scare you, you are not dreaming big enough

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            • #7

              Re: I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

              Give em #$%^ Rusty.
              stotto and Redneck Albertan like this.
              • “The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes.”Winston Churchill

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              • #8

                Re: I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

                I don't get it. How could someone take their own measurements for the counters, screw it up themselves, and then want someone else to pay for it?

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                • #9

                  Re: I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

                  Yes Brent it was that Gizmo.

                  Stuck is true Rod. Probably won't have the top in time to finish on time.

                  Frank this one just amazed me.

                  Brian You're just like me. It was between the homeowner and the company. I had to intervene when they wanted her to pay. The top I described above was not their only error BTW.

                  In actuality I'm not saying the guy who did the measure was necessarily wrong with the fancy equipment. I think the stone got chipped on the edge and the factory just decided to sand off 3/8ths of an inch on the edge and also on the end. I can't say for sure because I don't know what was sent to the fabrication shop.
                  "Do it Right!"

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                  • #10

                    Re: I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

                    It would be interesting, and probably educational to be able to view and compare the computer modelling to the first finished product they tried to send to you. Computerised modelling has been around for a long time now. You'd think they'd have the bugs out if it.

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                    • #11

                      Re: I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

                      I had a quartz counter put in when I did my kitchen... same thing... they showed up with a computer template setup.

                      What a joke...

                      One side of the stove was fine, single piece fit great.

                      Second side, not so much... was too long requiring going back, to be recut to fit, and the undermount sink cut out was so far forward it would actually sit outside the cabinet... so back it went, a couple weeks later they come to do the install again, sink fits, but the the counter was wider at one end, resulting in a crooked installation with drawer handles all at different amounts of reveal and not coplanar/lined up with the other side of the stove which was installed straight... so it wouldn't line up flush with both sides...

                      They tried to blame my walls, my cabinets, me, almost everything... but acknowledged templating error as the cause in the end, but refused to fix it a second time. "Sorry you're not happy, client satisfaction is important to us."

                      Not important enough I guess...

                      So I installed the straight side crooked to match the larger crooked side... some may not notice, but it's the best it's going to get and I'm too busy to start a lawsuit... Pisses me off though.

                      Good luck Rusty!

                      ​​​​​​
                      ​​​​

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                      • #12

                        Re: I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

                        That's bizarre. If the one side of the stove was great - proving that the guy manning the computer gizzo did the job correctly and the fabricator/cutter also did his job correctly, what is the explanation for the second side? Did the computer gizzo tech have a brain fart? Was the cutter suffering from sleep apnea? I'm assuming that the countertops are cut with some type of CNC machine and that the program is generated by the computer software.

                        This thread is of particular interest to me because I can see a kitchen remodel in my future and quartz countertops are in the running.

                        Brian/Rusty, as contractors you avoid these problems by leaving the countertops as a contract between the homeowners and the countertop company. But what would you do to protect yourself if it was your own kitchen project?

                        Given that quartz countertops can run into the thousands, would specifying a plywood template be cut with the CNC machine and shown to be fitting correctly at customer site before the quartz is cut,an appropriate means of validating the capability of the countertop company. The plywood template would cost - what, $200 - $300?, and be left in the customer's possession as evidence of proper fit should the quartz countertop not fit.

                        Curious minds want to know...

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                        • #13

                          Re: I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

                          Originally posted by macquanski View Post
                          That's bizarre. If the one side of the stove was great - proving that the guy manning the computer gizzo did the job correctly and the fabricator/cutter also did his job correctly, what is the explanation for the second side? Did the computer gizzo tech have a brain fart? Was the cutter suffering from sleep apnea? I'm assuming that the countertops are cut with some type of CNC machine and that the program is generated by the computer software.

                          This thread is of particular interest to me because I can see a kitchen remodel in my future and quartz countertops are in the running.

                          Brian/Rusty, as contractors you avoid these problems by leaving the countertops as a contract between the homeowners and the countertop company. But what would you do to protect yourself if it was your own kitchen project?

                          Given that quartz countertops can run into the thousands, would specifying a plywood template be cut with the CNC machine and shown to be fitting correctly at customer site before the quartz is cut,an appropriate means of validating the capability of the countertop company. The plywood template would cost - what, $200 - $300?, and be left in the customer's possession as evidence of proper fit should the quartz countertop not fit.

                          Curious minds want to know...
                          What the companies ask you to do is sign off or approve the template. Typically they will Email a computer generated layout of your counter and ask you to sign that you approve the layout. You need to pay real particular attention to the dimensions and check every single one. As I mentioned the tops were not measured right away until I started to find the errors and discrepancies. Then I checked every dimension and found one was actually missing 3/8ths of an inch in width. The strange thing is the damn template they want you to approve is shown down to 32nds of an inch too. All you can do is make sure you get a printed copy of the template and make it match what you need and want. You're hiring a professional company and a well respected company and all you're doing is asking them to do a job properly for you and they seem unable to do so without trying to blame you in some way or another. If you can't prove they screwed up you are hooped, because you're paying in advance for special orders like these tops. Unsuspecting and those who don't know what to look for are very susceptible.

                          Be careful out there folks.
                          "Do it Right!"

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                          • #14

                            Re: I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

                            The client must always control the specification and the approval.

                            Don

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                            • #15

                              Re: I got a beef! Albeit resolved.

                              Originally posted by Rusty View Post

                              What the companies ask you to do is sign off or approve the template. Typically they will Email a computer generated layout of your counter and ask you to sign that you approve the layout.

                              I've never had a contractor do anything like a full kitchen, but .... as rarely as I get stubbornly obstinate, this would be one time. If I am paying for my kitchen to be done, I'm sure as hell not signing to take away the responsibility for fit and finish from the person who is taking my money for doing the job .... that just ain't happening.

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