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  • Storing D3S black walnut

    Hi everyone,
    I have read the other posts on storing Lumber but there seems to be some disagreement on this, so I thought I would raise it again.
    I purchased a little too much kiln dried D3S black walnut recently. Currently 7 /8" thick. boards are mostly flat but not perfect. I got a pretty good price but have far too much to use this year. My current plan for the winter is to bring some into the house and keep some in the garage. In both cases the boards will be laid flat on top of each other (in the garage on a overhead rack). No stickers. Thoughts?
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  • #2

    Re: Storing D3S black walnut

    My experience is that if your lumber is "properly" kiln dried, it can be stored at any temperature without stickering as long as moisture is kept off it. If you have any doubt, pile it higher rather than wider to build weight and space it out with stickers. Some people recommend strapping the pile and that will help to keep the top few boards straight.
    If your lumber is just air dried, then do a moisture test and if it's below 15-20% and will be stored in a dry area, stickering may not be needed and I have stored that way in a cargo container, but I think it's always a good idea to sticker air dried material if stored where the environment changes.

    That's just my experience and it will likely be wrong for areas with differing temperatures and relative humidity levels in other parts of the country.

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    • #3

      Re: Storing D3S black walnut

      If you have the stickers and the room use them.    I store most of my furniture grade hardwood stored on horisontal racks along my sealing with nothing between them.   People store them in vertical racks.    I have seen both in wood stores and I would think that they would know best because they could stock exotic species for years.

      Really Don't sweat it too much.    If you have a lot and they are not already dried then yeah stickers and loads of air.    As for temperature... My shop doesn't have any water in it so I only heat it when I am in it and really the wood is still where I left them.  

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      • #4

        Re: Storing D3S black walnut

        With kiln dried lumber i would not screw around with stickers, you may introduce sticker shadow.

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        • #5

          Re: Storing D3S black walnut

          Thanks for the advice.   I know that the wood has been kiln dried properly and for the winter I will lay them flat on top of each other.   Keep my fingers crossed.

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          • #6

            Re: Storing D3S black walnut

            I'm not really buying this theory that properly dried lumber will not move. It has not been my experience at all. The attached here is just the latest example from this dresser I am building. I cut this, milled it, and this is what it turned into. I did all the tricks, ironed it, wet it, etc. I even got so fed up I actually chucked the entire piece in my pool for a few hours. While it was soaking, I re-made the piece using different stock and so far that piece seems ok. Oh - and when I took it out from the pool it had not returned to its shape at all not a single mm. Also some of the other pieces bowed but it at least was a consistent bow and I was able to use it as-is but this piece had a "kink".  

            All of this wood was "kiln" dried. I get my wood from multiple sources including WoodCraft and I just don't buy that every single one of these sources is not kiln drying properly.  

            The only solution I see is to put a coat of finish on the wood as soon as I am done cutting it. What a PITA that would be!  

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            • #7

              Re: Storing D3S black walnut

              Originally posted by WoodBob View Post
              I'm not really buying this theory that properly dried lumber will not move. It has not been my experience at all.
              My experience is the same as yours, and based on what I have read, kiln drying is NOT a garantee of stability. What it does, "if" properly kiln dried, is close the pores (cells) of the wood to "slow" the rate of moisture absorption, making the wood essentially resistant to small changes in RH, not moisture-proof, just resistant, slowing it down.

              Air dried, on the other hand, still has wide open pores (cells) so there is no resistance to moisture absorption, allowing it to move as quickly as the humidity changes.

              That's my knowledge of how it works, and it may be wrong, so ...... take it as such.

              beachburl likes this.

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              • #8

                Re: Storing D3S black walnut

                ha ha, do you guys mean there is no 100% for sure "anything" in this world. Maybe the woods gods don't like ya for some reason lol. How do you think a production shop using a thousand BF of lumber a day can get by if the gods treated them the way they do you ? Really, come on now, you have to believe There Is Another Way ? You just have not the buying power to be able to take advantage of it. I and other wood workers i know have refused lifts of lumber while still on the truck. It is like anything, the more you do in a trade the more you learn. The trick by the way but most of the guys here will never have use for it, is to buy Only lifts with the Mill Bands on it. All other lifts are usually made up from ends from other lifts. Wood yards can not re bundle using Mill Bands.
                What would i do if i wanted just a pick up load of lumber ? I would go talk to a production shop and ask if i could buy xx BF from his stock, right off the top and not picked or they will show you the door. That way you'll have prime meat not hot-dogs to work with.

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                • #9

                  Re: Storing D3S black walnut

                  Originally posted by RV Sam View Post
                  ha ha, do you guys mean there is no 100% for sure "anything" in this world. Maybe the woods gods don't like ya for some reason lol. How do you think a production shop using a thousand BF of lumber a day can get by if the gods treated them the way they do you ? Really, come on now, you have to believe There Is Another Way ? You just have not the buying power to be able to take advantage of it. I and other wood workers i know have refused lifts of lumber while still on the truck. It is like anything, the more you do in a trade the more you learn. The trick by the way but most of the guys here will never have use for it, is to buy Only lifts with the Mill Bands on it. All other lifts are usually made up from ends from other lifts. Wood yards can not re bundle using Mill Bands.
                  What would i do if i wanted just a pick up load of lumber ? I would go talk to a production shop and ask if i could buy xx BF from his stock, right off the top and not picked or they will show you the door. That way you'll have prime meat not hot-dogs to work with.
                  I think this has more to do with how quickly you use the wood. My wood sits on the rack for months if not years. And once cut, it could be more months until I put a finish on it. If I used it shortly after I got it I think I would see a lot less wood movement. And it isn't all of my wood that warps but it is most of it. Particularly Walnut.I also think the better wood goes to the institutional buyers and us poor home-hobby schmucks get the leftovers.  

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                  • #10

                    Re: Storing D3S black walnut

                    Right on Bob. Let us say you have a customer that buys $10,000 worth of lumber from you a month BY The Lift, easy sell on your end. You have another real nice guy, like all the people on here for example, they come in and want to chat your ear off for an hour and you being the super nice guy you are you actually pay attention to chat back. After the hour goes by he then wants to tear your pile apart and look for a 10" wide board so he can go to his basement and rip it into narrow strips to make a bird house, lol.. Time on your lift truck to load $10,000 worth of material = 10 to 15 minutes MAX. Time spent to make a $20 bill was how much, get it.. So IF you had the chance to dump some crap, who would you sell it to.
                    I have wood going back 6 years and lots way over that, as of last month when i went digging for a 10" board, ( sorry had to say it, lol ) i saw nothing that looked like, wow what the heck happened to that. When i made doors i would rip dressed 3 sides material by the lift into 2.5" strips on the multi gang and store them. Now as you pointed out 99% of those were used in 30 days. I had very very few boards that went crazy when ripped. My deal was that anything i could not use just set aside and the salesman would take a look next visit and credit me for it. Using 3k BF a month for 25 years i never had to do that. Did i get a board every now and then, heck yes but not worth the time or energy to even talk about it . Even at those volumes the wholesaler would try and sneak in a lift of what we called returns from the month from a few dozen shops if we needed something not common and was a broken lift. One can never relax and think they finally Made It.
                    I have seen many of your pieces Bob, your a master and i can dig your being upset when the materials do not meet your standards. BUT you have mentioned that some of it is your own doings. Relax and you will lose, do as you know what / how to do and treat wood and you will continue to put out the fine products you do.
                    I mentioned to you before that you remind me of my Dad who made a living being a wood worker all his life. In his retired years he made the kind of stuff i have seen you show. I have Many of his pieces here in my house as also my sister does. Most are as the day he made them ( going back 30 + years now ) a small few have cracked or moved Because he broke the rules. In some designs there is no way around this as you i'm sure know but we all take that chance anyway, lol.

                    WoodBob likes this.

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                    • #11

                      Re: Storing D3S black walnut

                      Bob, Sam, John reading your replies is both educational, funny, and a little scary.   I've never stored this much wood over a winter before (especially expensive Black Walnut) so I'm getting more concerned about how it will look come the spring!

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                      • #12

                        Re: Storing D3S black walnut

                        Originally posted by Peter53 View Post
                        Bob, Sam, John reading your replies is both educational, funny, and a little scary. I've never stored this much wood over a winter before (especially expensive Black Walnut) so I'm getting more concerned about how it will look come the spring!
                        Improper storage can be your downfall for sure. If you are unsure of your wood storage area and have no way to add / remove moisture then maybe ( i never had to do this ) it would be best to stack and band the material. Pretty sure you will not have the tools to band so use ratchet straps and protect the edges with folded heavy cardboard and yank that handle as tight as you can. Chances are in an improper location those bands will loosen a little depending on condition from the kiln which should be 6 to 8 % on the inside of the board, not the surface, if so you can give the ratchet another pull.
                        Just wondering, how much are you storing ?

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                        • #13

                          Re: Storing D3S black walnut

                          Originally posted by RV Sam View Post

                          Improper storage can be your downfall for sure. If you are unsure of your wood storage area and have no way to add / remove moisture then maybe ( i never had to do this ) it would be best to stack and band the material. Pretty sure you will not have the tools to band so use ratchet straps and protect the edges with folded heavy cardboard and yank that handle as tight as you can. Chances are in an improper location those bands will loosen a little depending on condition from the kiln which should be 6 to 8 % on the inside of the board, not the surface, if so you can give the ratchet another pull.
                          Just wondering, how much are you storing ?
                          I'm just a hobbyist who out of enthusiasm bought more wood than i could ever use in a season. By the winter i will probably have 100bf in my house (laid out in stacks on the floor) and 200bf in my garage (stacked on a overhead ceiling rack).  

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                          • #14

                            Re: Storing D3S black walnut

                            I've stored walnut, ash, oak and so on in my garage (not temperature controlled but insulated) normally I sticker it and use ratchet straps and on occasion have had some of the lumber warp but for the most part it holds its shape. I like to sticker the wood because I don't know how long it will sit before I use it so there could be major swings in humidity from summer to winter and back.

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                            • #15

                              Re: Storing D3S black walnut

                              Question: Who specifically cuts stickers and who uses scrap? I use scrap but after this thread, I am thinking I need consistent, purpose-cut stickers. Perhaps I will take a piece of red-oak and cut it into stickers and re-sticker all of my wood. I have a piece of Padauk that twisted like a pretzel but I don't think that was because of improper stickers.  

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