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Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

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  • Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

    Hi all,

    What glue(s) would you recommend for a Rietveld-style chair?

    It will permanently live outside in Toronto weather. And the joinery will rely on glued 1/2" x 2" dowels pinned with 1/8" dowel roads.

    Thanks.

    Howard
    Last edited by Howard In Toronto; 07-11-2020, 12:39 PM.
  • Thread Continues Below...

  • #2

    Re: Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

    Don't rely on glue for outdoor purposes.   I do not know of any glue that will hold up on their own.   The elements really screw around with glue.    

    I build a ton of outdoor cedar furniture and we usually pin our joints with metal screws or nails.    I don't believe that the joint even a tight fitting mortise and tenant joint will last with glue alone.    I use titebond 3 in my shop and I don't have proof that it doesn't hold up well but I doubt that anything will hold up to weather swings that we get in Canada...   Even if just in summer you still get 16 to 20 degree swings in temperature along with huge swings in humidity and you cap that all off with solar radiation.    I doubt anything will hold up to that.    Pinning your dowels is probably the best thing really to keep them together.

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    • #3

      Re: Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

      Permanently outside, I'd use epoxy.   Rietveld made several styles of chair.   Which one are you looking to build?   And what finish?

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      • #4

        Re: Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

        Polyurethane glue is the most waterproof, epoxy is but if its exposed to the sun it will degenerate, paint over the epoxy will cure the degeneration, polyurethane glue is the best but you have to get the correct one, the thin brown stuff most people associate with Gorilla brand is non gap filling so you need a tight joint, there is a thicker white colored polyurethane glue that comes in a gun tube that is more suitable to gap filling it comes in different cure times 10 mins is the fastest but it is weak the longer the cure time the stronger the bond, this is the glue that foams up it expands into the pores of the wood but also expands out of the joint acetone is the best clean up while its still fresh otherwise you leave it to fully cure and cut it off with something sharp, like a lot of glues it is stronger than the wood so it will pull off the wood and damage the wood surface,
        The problem is if the wood is constantly wet its the wood that is damaged not the glue if the wood degenerates into a semi rotten state the glue is not going to do its job, 40 years ago I made a letterbox using ply and PVA I painted it I know it lasted 25 years it could still be there I have not been back to look these last few years,

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        • #5

          Re: Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

          Thanks for these ideas.

          I'd originally thought of polyurethane glue. But these are the dowels LV sells. Their design is for the water in PVA glues to swell them to their final stated size.

          FWIW, I always chamfer leg bottoms so they don't tear out when being moved. For outdoor furniture, I epoxy the legs' bottom to minimize rot from absorbing water and snow.

          In view of all that, any thoughts re plain-jane epoxy?

          Thanks.

          Here's a link to the chair I'm modifying slightly for outdoor use -  https://www.google.com/search?q=riet...hrome&ie=UTF-8

          Comment


          • #6

            Re: Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

            Originally posted by bkrits View Post
            Polyurethane glue is the most waterproof, epoxy is but if its exposed to the sun it will degenerate, paint over the epoxy will cure the degeneration, polyurethane glue is the best but you have to get the correct one, the thin brown stuff most people associate with Gorilla brand is non gap filling so you need a tight joint, there is a thicker white colored polyurethane glue that comes in a gun tube that is more suitable to gap filling it comes in different cure times 10 mins is the fastest but it is weak the longer the cure time the stronger the bond, this is the glue that foams up it expands into the pores of the wood but also expands out of the joint acetone is the best clean up while its still fresh otherwise you leave it to fully cure and cut it off with something sharp, like a lot of glues it is stronger than the wood so it will pull off the wood and damage the wood surface,
            The problem is if the wood is constantly wet its the wood that is damaged not the glue if the wood degenerates into a semi rotten state the glue is not going to do its job, 40 years ago I made a letterbox using ply and PVA I painted it I know it lasted 25 years it could still be there I have not been back to look these last few years,
            I think the idea that the glue is stonger than the wood isn't true for the most part.    I have glued a lot of joints and tried to pull them appart and for the most part it failled where the glue was installed in the first place.    If it would be stronger than the wood it would split anywhere else than on that glue line.   Most of the time there's a little wood that comes with the glue but there's a definite weakness on the glue line.

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            • Thread Continues Below...

            • #7

              Re: Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

              Interesting thoughts here.

              I still think I'll use glue too - still trying to ID WHICH type.

              But I'll definitely pin the dowels with LV's 1/8" dowel rods.

              Thanks guys.

              Howard

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              • #8

                Re: Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

                I use poly for outdoor applications, but always with some kind of mechanical fasteners. I made some cedar gates twenty years ago that are still glued tight.
                Last edited by Frank D.; 07-11-2020, 08:42 PM.
                Frank
                SPCHT

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                • #9

                  Re: Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

                  I’ve used some lePages tube construction glue on a wooden gate and on vehicle rust repair. Both are going into the third and fourth year and are holding up well. Glue is all that’s holding the gate Together.    https://www.homedepot.ca/product/lep...5ml/1000671614  
                  Last edited by Egon; 07-12-2020, 08:05 AM.
                  Egon
                  from
                  The South Shore, Nova Scotia

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                  • #10

                    Re: Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

                    Originally posted by Egon View Post
                    I’ve used some lePages tube construction glue on a wooden gate and on vehicle rust repair.
                     
                    Curious about the vehicle rust repair.   You mean you used it like bondo and smoothed it to shape, or as adhesive to glue replacement panels in place?

                     

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                    • #11

                      Re: Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

                      Originally posted by Kayak Jim View Post
                       
                      Curious about the vehicle rust repair.   You mean you used it like bondo and smoothed it to shape, or as adhesive to glue replacement panels in place?

                       
                      Glue sheet metal in place.
                       
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by Egon; 07-12-2020, 12:40 PM.
                      Egon
                      from
                      The South Shore, Nova Scotia

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                      • Thread Continues Below...

                      • #12

                        Re: Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

                        I use Gorilla glue and have a Cedar Adirondack chair I made 25 years ago sitting outside and it is still as sturdy as when I built it

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                        • #13

                          Re: Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

                          I haven’t built decks and fences commercially for 15 years. I made my gates from PT spf  2x limber. I did the fence in pic As a favour for a neighbor approx 11 years ago. It is constructed with M & T joints and Gorilla Glue. I constructed all my gates in this manner and none that I am aware of failed. I used no other fasteners. Click image for larger version

Name:	81B3C088-C1BC-4187-B15A-B2D3244B999F.png
Views:	116
Size:	1.27 MB
ID:	1290234  To the best of my knowledge Gorilla Glue is a polyurethane glue

                          Brian
                          If your dreams don't scare you, you are not dreaming big enough

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                          • #14

                            Re: Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

                            West Systems G-Flex is an epoxy designed for outdoor wood apps.   It has 'Flex' more than their standard epoxy and can handle seasonal wood movement more assuredly.

                            https://www.westsystem.com/specialty...ughened-epoxy/
                            Kevin

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                            • #15

                              Re: Best outdoor glue for cedar chair

                              Originally posted by woodguy7 View Post
                              I use Gorilla glue and have a Cedar Adirondack chair I made 25 years ago sitting outside and it is still as sturdy as when I built it
                              The Gorilla brand make both polyurethane and PVA glue so when you say Gorilla we have to guess what you are talking about, Gorilla is a brand not a type of glue.

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