Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Proper construction techniques

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Proper construction techniques

    I am making a 60" x 20" top for a dresser. I want to have a Cherry framed piece of Walnut. The Walnut piece will be @ 52"x12" and that will have a 4" Cherry frame around it. I want to do mitered corners on the Cherry frame. Also between the Walnut and Cherry I will have a 1/4" brass inlay.

    I am concerned about wood movement cracking the piece at the end grain to side grain joint. What would be a good joinery plan for this edge? Can I glue the edge to edge (long side) as usual and then treat the end as a breadboard? Am I right to be concerned about that 12" joint cracking/separating?  
  • Thread Continues Below...

  • #2

    Re: Proper construction techniques

    Is this different from a simple frame and panel?

    Comment


    • #3

      Re: Proper construction techniques

      I think it might work a little better if the frame was only along three sides of the top: The front and two sides. That way you can do a breadboard end (for the sides), being sure the glue just the front 3". Then the walnut panel can expand towards the back.

      If you have four sides to the top frame, I can't see the miters holding up over time with without literally floating the walnut panel. But then you're not going to have a smooth top.

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: Proper construction techniques

        Yeah the more i think about this idea the more i don't like it. This is a client request (my wife). I think I'll go back to just regular old pegged breadboard ends.
        bogmer and Wally in Calgary like this.

        Comment


        • #5

          Re: Proper construction techniques

          Originally posted by WoodBob View Post
          I am making a 60" x 20" top for a dresser. I want to have a Cherry framed piece of Walnut. The Walnut piece will be @ 52"x12" and that will have a 4" Cherry frame around it. I want to do mitered corners on the Cherry frame. Also between the Walnut and Cherry I will have a 1/4" brass inlay.

          I am concerned about wood movement cracking the piece at the end grain to side grain joint. What would be a good joinery plan for this edge? Can I glue the edge to edge (long side) as usual and then treat the end as a breadboard? Am I right to be concerned about that 12" joint cracking/separating?
          I think that is similar to how I built the top for my treadle based sofa table with the exception of the inlay, a feature which should not affect anything.. I used air dried Ash and made a top about 12" x 36", then surrounded it with air dried Maple and mitred the corners. I glued it all solid, and because my mitre skills were a bit less than perfect I made a jig to router a slot into the mitre and glued in an air dried Elm key.

          The Maple frame is actually about 1-1/2" wide and the top is let into a rabbet in the top of the Maple surround, so the Maple looks very narrow looking at the top.

          This table has been together several years, sits in front of our front living room window, gets sun and shade, humidity when the windows are open (summer) and dryness during the winter. It has yet to move. I finished it with Polyurethane (floor and trim type) same number of coats on all surfaces.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	table01.jpg Views:	0 Size:	43.6 KB ID:	1290868

          Click image for larger version  Name:	table02.jpg Views:	0 Size:	87.5 KB ID:	1290867
          Last edited by John Bartley; 07-18-2020, 04:37 PM.

          Comment


          • #6

            Re: Proper construction techniques

            A safer way is to make the walnut thin glue it to a board product and glue your frame, the walnut could be anything from 1mm to 5 or 8mm, the most stable back board would be MDF but you may not like to use the stuff, a good ply would work, I have done this on most of my projects and I cannot think of any failures.
            I guess the biggest difficulty is getting a successful bond on the whole of something of that size, I would be using a vac press and epoxy but that is not for everyone.
            Wally in Calgary likes this.

            Comment

            • Thread Continues Below...

            • #7

              Re: Proper construction techniques

              Originally posted by John Bartley View Post

              I think that is similar to how I built the top for my treadle based sofa table with the exception of the inlay, a feature which should not affect anything.. I used air dried Ash and made a top about 12" x 36", then surrounded it with air dried Maple and mitred the corners. I glued it all solid, and because my mitre skills were a bit less than perfect I made a jig to router a slot into the mitre and glued in an air dried Elm key.

              The Maple frame is actually about 1-1/2" wide and the top is let into a rabbet in the top of the Maple surround, so the Maple looks very narrow looking at the top.

              This table has been together several years, sits in front of our front living room window, gets sun and shade, humidity when the windows are open (summer) and dryness during the winter. It has yet to move. I finished it with Polyurethane (floor and trim type) same number of coats on all surfaces.

              Click image for larger version Name:	table01.jpg Views:	0 Size:	43.6 KB ID:	1290868

              Click image for larger version Name:	table02.jpg Views:	0 Size:	87.5 KB ID:	1290867
              Very nice but it looks like 1/2" for that edge trim. That is 1 1/2"? I do like your "creative" way to hide the corners not lining up perfectly. This is actually hard to do! For future reference I suggest you make a miter sled using both slots of your table saw miter slots. Also check your table-saw setup especially blade to table alignment.  

              I think I will go with a 4" piece of Cherry edge glued to each long side of the Walnut and then proper Cherry breadboard ends. I'll also finish it on all sides with Danish oil and poly before attaching it to the dresser.  

              Comment


              • #8

                Re: Proper construction techniques

                I studied under a craftsman (80 yrs) old that started learning at age 5 from his father and grandfather both craftsmen... One of the things he emphasized was to use the best material for the application and don't get hung up on solid wood. So for this application the safest way to go would be walnut veneer plywood with solid cherry framing. Easy to build and very stale with no concerns about wood movement both for the cherry frame and also if you attach to the dresser via the ply then no concerns for movement compensation there as well.
                RV Sam likes this.

                Comment


                • #9

                  Re: Proper construction techniques

                  Originally posted by WoodBob View Post

                  Very nice but it looks like 1/2" for that edge trim. That is 1 1/2"? I do like your "creative" way to hide the corners not lining up perfectly. This is actually hard to do! For future reference I suggest you make a miter sled using both slots of your table saw miter slots. Also check your table-saw setup especially blade to table alignment.
                  Thank you for the recommendation .... having gone from a three car garage where all my equipment was out and setup on a flat floor, ready for use without moving it ..... to a 1-1/2 car garage where I have to roll equipment in and out across an "anything but flat" floor, any sort of continuing accurate setup is almost impossible, so I do what I can. And, yes I have since built a table saw sled that I can put mitre stops on.

                  Yes, the trim is about 1-1/2" wide, but by cutting a rabbet into the top side and routering the details into the top and bottom, it "looks" thin.

                  Regardless .... the answer to your original question (a moot point now anyway, given your new design style) is that it stayed tight together, did not expand at all, probably due to the glue being on the two surfaces of the rabbet and the top and the top only being 12" wide.

                  FWIW .... I am building another one and it is rough sawn veneer laminated to an MDF base, but with the same style of mitred trim.

                  cheers

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: Proper construction techniques

                    I went ahead and glued up the top. I haven't decided if I want to do a breadboard edge or just leave it like you see it. I think the breadboard edge with the same Cherry would look better that just the 2 straight Cherry pieces top and bottom. What do you think?

                     

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Re: Proper construction techniques

                      I looks like that walnut is quarter sawn so it should not cup, as for aesthetics the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as for ends I would want to be sure that wood was stable, but then I did it with the big table I built recently, a tongue and groove joint may be your best way or plenty of biscuits????

                      Comment

                      • Thread Continues Below...

                      • #12

                        Re: Proper construction techniques

                        I've had that piece of Cherry for well over 15 years and the Walnut for about a year. The walnut was perfectly flat with no warpage at all. I don't think that is 1/4sawn, however. I decided I will do the breadboard edge it just looks so much better.  

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Re: Proper construction techniques

                          WB..... I agree that the breadboard edging will improve the appearance.    Note that over time the cherry will darken, while the walnut will lighten... so the present dramatic difference between the two species will be lessened.    Roy
                          Are you solving the problem, or becoming part of it?

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Re: Proper construction techniques

                            Originally posted by WoodBob View Post
                            I've had that piece of Cherry for well over 15 years and the Walnut for about a year. The walnut was perfectly flat with no warpage at all. I don't think that is 1/4sawn, however. I decided I will do the breadboard edge it just looks so much better.  
                            I used a cross-grain spline with white Melamine glue in this table for the BB ends over 15 yrs. ago and it still looks the same today. It's all white Birch. The glue moves enough for the small amount of movement it goes through.  
                            Click image for larger version

Name:	t37.JPG
Views:	125
Size:	21.0 KB
ID:	1290950

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Re: Proper construction techniques

                              Your BB ends will take away the risk of the walnut cupping, I would be doing either a stopped tongue and groove so you don't see it or put 2 rows of biscuits in, you can just get 2 rows in 20mm but there is not much room between them, I did it on 20mm panel kitchen doors, it will just help should anyone decide to sit on the edge or should there be any movement, looking good will we see the finished item.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X