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Heaters and Heat Sources.

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  • Egon
    replied
    I was referring to no vapour barrier or insulation which was the case in many Prairie buildings of the past. ( it should have been mentioned in my post )

    Your last comments seem to differ radically from those first made?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rusty
    replied
    Originally posted by Egon View Post
    Insulation and vapour barrier are for sure the way to go.

    note: there have been many an Alberta house,garage, shed, school etc. Heated by coal/wood fires over many years with nary an interior rain shower. in fact the interiors were quite dry. Wool socks and plank floors made for many a shock.
    Egon if your comment is in relation to my comment regarding condensation, freezing and the rain forest I described above let me clear up any misunderstanding. My description described a new home structure with no insulation and no vapour barrier. Yours I think, since you mention in your first comment that insulation and VB are for sure the way to go, that your description is involving structures with both VB and insulation. Applications as different as night and day. Having said that let me add that different heat sources will deliver less or more moisture to the air. BTW we don't know what type of heat the OP will ultimately have, but to continue, wood will supply less moisture than many other sources of heat such as temporary construction heaters. One of the worst was coal oil heaters. Another was propane. Neither of which are anything more than temporary heat sources and could literally kill you from the fumes without lots of fresh air. The key word for us is temporary!

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  • darrin1200
    replied
    I finally decided on my heating source for my new shop. I am going with the Ouellet Ceiling mount 5k watt model. I spoke to my local heating guys, and we discussed a few options. His opinion, is that in floor heating is best for a wood shop, but it is expensive. When I told him the cost of this electric unit, he said it is probably my most cost effective means of heating my space. If I find, down the road, it doesn’t work, I can look into something else and I’m out less than $1K.

    Leave a comment:


  • Egon
    replied
    Insulation and vapour barrier are for sure the way to go.

    note: there have been many an Alberta house,garage, shed, school etc. Heated by coal/wood fires over many years with nary an interior rain shower. in fact the interiors were quite dry. Wool socks and plank floors made for many a shock.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim DaddyO
    replied
    When I built my tiny shop (12 x 20) I insulated the wood floors. I now have it all insulated with Roxul, finished it this year. I still have to put electricity to it and I am debating on NG for a small furnace. My other option, since the space is small, and pretty well insulated, is to go with a propane furnace. The kind you find in a big RV or 5th wheel. It will all depend on what I can get for what price, including accounting for running the NG pipe. For the time being I use a tank top propane heater, but I have to have the windows cracked for ventilation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rusty
    replied
    Matt I have seen the outside of your house and if I remember properly there is living space above the garage.You have a couple of interesting issues going on in that insulated area and you need to be cautious regarding the position of the vapour barrier. The side vertical wall is probably an outside wall of a room above. If so the vb is already in place on the warm side of that room. Don't double it up. The sloped part I assume is the underside of a roof and air flow is a must from the soffit over the insulation. Not sure why you opened that space up but it would have been easier to board and insulate on the flat, as it was, with the board you removed. You need airflow behind the pink insulation as well and you may have that now. A lot of your warmth is sitting up there. Nuff said.

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  • Matt Matt
    replied
    Originally posted by Rusty View Post
    Matt haven't you got an air cleaner. Plenty of fan in there. why would you need another fan.

    BTW I have no clue what your 3rd paragraph is describing.

    Are you suggesting you have no vapour barrier in either of your shops? Shame on you.
    No, I don’t have Air cleaner.

    In one spot in my shop garage there wasn’t any vapour barrier ever. It had a sheet of drywall hiding roof trust, and no insulation. I have since added insulation.
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    Last edited by Matt Matt; 11-06-2018, 10:56 AM.

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  • Kayak Jim
    replied
    I'd be interested in a more complete description of your system too Matt. And photos. Just curious.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rusty
    replied
    Matt haven't you got an air cleaner. Plenty of fan in there. why would you need another fan.

    BTW I have no clue what your 3rd paragraph is describing.

    Are you suggesting you have no vapour barrier in either of your shops? Shame on you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt Matt
    replied
    I’ve been running overhead natural gas radiant heat for in my 460 square-foot garage shop at 30,000 BTU for about two years. I absolutely love it but… I wanna put in a metal blade fan.

    I was absolutely convinced overhead radiant would be the number one (opposed to floor radiant). My garage shop is about 90% Metal work. With the other 10% being woodworking. I fully considered using hot Dang but I don’t like hot air flow. So after two years I might implement a variable speed ceiling fan with my overhead radiant 30,000 BTU tube heater.

    my basement shop/home/Water is heated off of NG and substituted completely with wood. I have what is called is a thermal syphon system. I do need electricity for the system to work at full bore, or hot water is just dumped down the dream. At 72°C the fan turns on. 92°C the water just pours down the drain. At 102°C there is steam valve which goes down the drain too.

    My last wood shop just used a airtight. I now consider it a hobby to burn wood. NG keeps me where I wanna be at the flick of a switch or thermostat.

    My garage shop I went through many steps. 1500 W toaster heater, then I added another 1500 W toaster, then I added a 5000 W shop heater. Then I added to insulated garage doors.... then I added more insulation The 30,000 BTU overhead radiant . My last step is to add the fan and some vapour barrier.

    more insulation as always your friend.
    Last edited by Matt Matt; 11-05-2018, 11:49 PM.

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  • iamtooler
    replied
    Originally posted by Redbull1989 View Post
    Hope this helps

    You can see my stove in the corner here



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Now that is my idea of a comfortable shop! I guess the fridge is behind the photographer.
    Rob

    Leave a comment:


  • Rusty
    replied
    You have no choice. You can't heat it. Any heat you make in there will condense on the underside of your roof sheathing and freeze. If you install a vapour barrier it will condense on the vapour barrier and freeze on the underside of the vapour barrier, Then you heat it all up again and the ice thaws and you will be working in a rain forest. To do anything constructive you must put up vapour barrier and dry wall on the ceiling. Then pump in as much cellulose as you can afford in the attic space above the vapour barrier. With that in mind install access to the attic space. Blown in cellulose is pretty cheap BTW. Vapour barrier is dirt cheap and drywall ain't expensive either. It does not have to be taped.

    Now you can put heat in there. Obviously it ain't ideal but it's the minimum you can and must do before heat.

    BTW folks Grand Prairie is as cold or colder than Edmonton and no arguments will be accepted here because I've been there building houses in Edmonton when we had to suffer through the rain forest to get the house through the mechanical rough in stage ready for the drywall and a lot depends on the prevailing temperatures at the time.

    Leave a comment:


  • dwoody
    replied
    I started a lengthy thread last year about shop heating. Lots of people chimed in with useful input. It might be worth looking at for your issues. The update is here but it has a link to the original as well.

    https://forum.canadianwoodworking.co...erience-update
    Last edited by John Bartley; 11-05-2018, 04:06 PM. Reason: fixed link

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  • WhiskeyJack77
    replied
    Thanks for the feedback. the more i think about insulating, even if i just cover it with some plastic vapor barrier is the most logical first step. I'll keep an eye on this thread and give it more thought.

    Leave a comment:


  • John Bartley
    replied
    Before I worried about heating it I'd make sure it was as well insulated as it can be. Buying heat is expensive and gets more expensive the colder it is. Saving heat only costs you once and the thicker the insulation the more you save. Put in as much insulation in as you can, then put in as many windows on the sunny side as you can. Then it's a matter of finding the cheapest heat source.

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