Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16

    Re: Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

    I'd agree with all of Rod's advice, except add that if you're considering exhausting directly to the outside without providing to replace the exhausted air, you'll be creating a negative air pressure situation in your shop. In the winter, that'll also mean you'll be pumping a lot of warm air out of your shop. As well, if your future shop has any pilot lights (such as would be on natural gas appliances such as hot water heaters or furnaces) you'll be drawing exhaused gasses into your shop. Not an entirely safe situation.

    Marty


    Originally posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    Hi Mike, my first piece of advice would be don't buy any bag type collector.

    My second piece of advice would be to make a drawing of what you want your shop to look like in 5 to 10 years. This will allow you to decide if you can live with a portable unit, or want something better such as a cyclone with a HEPA filter.

    Note that if you can exhaust the air outside, and don't have neighbours close you can use an extractor with poor filtering, or even no filtering in the case of a 2 stage unit such as a cyclone.

    My third piece of advice is that unless you're buying from a manufacturer that specializes in dust extraction, divide their performance numbers by 2 or 3 to get actual performance.

    To collect fine dust from a table saw for example, you'll need 400 to 600 CFM at the cabinet, and 100 to 200 CFM over the blade. That's 500 to 800 CFM, not the 400 CFM you'll see for just collecting some of the big chips.

    Welcome to the forum......................Regards, Rod.
    All the best,

    Marty

    Secretary of Kingston Wood Artisans Inc. https://kwoodartca.wordpress.com/

    Master Mistake Fixer (because I've made them all... at least once)

    Comment

    • Thread Continues Below...

    • #17

      Re: Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

      If I did it over again I would get a cyclone with a hepa canister filter at the get go, or at least a canister filter on the single stage with a seperator or dust deputy or something.

      If you can afford the all the machinery and tools you can spring a little more. To get a "starter" inadequate system first is a mistake I made and you'll be looking to correct sooner than later.

      I started with a 1.5hp general and a trash can seperator​​​​​​ with only one 10' run of 4" hose and switched from machine to machine.

      It's OK for chips but the finer dust is everywhere. It just pumps it right through the "filter" bag.

      ​​​
      timberframe likes this.

      Comment


      • #18

        Re: Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

        Originally posted by al.m.. View Post
        I find it strange that a dust collector does not have a tefc motor
        I don't, the motor will be in the clean air of the shop, not in the dusty air..................Rod.
        Work is the curse of the riding class.

        Comment


        • #19

          Re: Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

          Apologies for resurrecting this thread -- but believe it or not, I'm just now ready to think about purchasing some dust collection for my 2 car garage shop after dealing with some health issues over the past year.

          From what I gather, I want a unit with HEPA filter, capable of 600-800 CFM (I'm OK with single tool and short ducting) that will work on a 15 amp circuit (I don't have 220v in the garage and no easy way of getting it there). Is there anything out there that meets these requirements?

          Furthermore, should I be using the same system for tools like my track saw or should I buy a separate dust extractor (eg. Makita, Bosch, Dewalt, Festool extractors)?

          Really appreciate the insight guys.

          Comment


          • #20

            Re: Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

            Hi, you're going to have real problem if you only have a single 15 ampere circuit in your garage. You'll be limited to either running smaller power tools OR the dust collector.

            To obtain 600 to 800 CFM at the tool, you'll need between 1.5 and 2.5 HP depending upon how well designed and built the dust collector is.

            As a minimum you'll need a circuit for the collector, and one for the machinery/tools...............Regards, Rod.
            Work is the curse of the riding class.

            Comment


            • #21

              Re: Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

              Originally posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
              Hi, you're going to have real problem if you only have a single 15 ampere circuit in your garage. You'll be limited to either running smaller power tools OR the dust collector.

              To obtain 600 to 800 CFM at the tool, you'll need between 1.5 and 2.5 HP depending upon how well designed and built the dust collector is.

              As a minimum you'll need a circuit for the collector, and one for the machinery/tools...............Regards, Rod.
              I have 4 discreet 15 amp circuits in the garage and can dedicate 1 for the dust collection without issue. Does anyone make a 1.5 or 2.5 HP dust collector that can use a hepa filter?

              Comment

              • Thread Continues Below...

              • #22

                Re: Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

                Hi Mike, when you say "that will work on a 15 amp circuit " does this mean you only have one 15 amp circuit for the whole shop, or you have one that you can dedicate to the DC? There's a good chance that if you have two or more 15 amp circuits in the shop that you actually do have access to 220V. Is there a panel in your shop? Take a pic of your electrical settup and some folks here can help you get started.

                From my research, I'd say your approach to DC is pretty good. HEPA filtration and sufficient suction for most machines. You may find as you change your equipment lineup that some machines still make the air dusty, but you can always wear a mask till your DC cleans the air.
                Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club.

                http://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

                Comment


                • #23

                  Re: Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

                  Originally posted by timberframe View Post
                  Hi Mike, when you say "that will work on a 15 amp circuit " does this mean you only have one 15 amp circuit for the whole shop, or you have one that you can dedicate to the DC? There's a good chance that if you have two or more 15 amp circuits in the shop that you actually do have access to 220V. Is there a panel in your shop? Take a pic of your electrical settup and some folks here can help you get started.

                  From my research, I'd say your approach to DC is pretty good. HEPA filtration and sufficient suction for most machines. You may find as you change your equipment lineup that some machines still make the air dusty, but you can always wear a mask till your DC cleans the air.
                  My house was a model home and I think they used the 2-car garage as a makeshift showroom where people could select finishes etc. From my houses main electrical panel I have the normal garage plugs on a 15amp circuit but then I have two 15 amp breakers currently in the off position that are labelled "heaters". Upon further inspection, when I turn on the breakers, I get power in two different wall boxes in the garage which are not currently terminated. My plan was to simply add some plugs in these two unique locations giving me a total of 3 15-amp circuits. I also think I have a 4th in an oddball spot that shares with some of the lights in an adjacent part of the house.

                  Comment


                  • #24

                    Re: Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

                    Originally posted by mwarning View Post

                    My house was a model home and I think they used the 2-car garage as a makeshift showroom where people could select finishes etc. From my houses main electrical panel I have the normal garage plugs on a 15amp circuit but then I have two 15 amp breakers currently in the off position that are labelled "heaters". Upon further inspection, when I turn on the breakers, I get power in two different wall boxes in the garage which are not currently terminated. My plan was to simply add some plugs in these two unique locations giving me a total of 3 15-amp circuits. I also think I have a 4th in an oddball spot that shares with some of the lights in an adjacent part of the house.
                    OK, that's good news. It would take a bit of detective work to verify but I'm going to bet you could actually have access to 220V there if needed/wanted. At the very least you probably have a decent amount of power to start with.
                    Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club.

                    http://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

                    Comment


                    • #25

                      Re: Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

                      Yah, i want to start with something that works on a 15amp circuit. Can a HEPA filter be added to any of the inexpensive Craftex models (1HP etc?)

                      Comment


                      • #26

                        Re: Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

                        Originally posted by mwarning View Post
                        Yah, i want to start with something that works on a 15amp circuit. Can a HEPA filter be added to any of the inexpensive Craftex models (1HP etc?)
                        you can get the retro fit filters for sure, but you'll find the performance of those 1HP units inadequate with respect to suction/air volume/SP etc. The manufacturers data on such models are infamous for being exaggerated. Many many many people here and in other forums have stated their regrets for buying cheaper, lower powered units as a starter unit and wish they had gone big at the outset. I strongly suggest you try your best to pinch your pennies a little longer, use a dust mask and broom for a little longer and get a unit from a respected manufacturer that you may well keep till your estate sale.

                        Something like this is acceptable for most machines (one at a time) and has fan curves provided by the manufacturer that are seen as reliable, and independent-lab certified filters.
                        https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=XXPM010100H&CatId={B75F8739-54DE-47CA-A8FE-4FE9AEFDCC1C}

                        There are other industrial manufacturers of course that offer similar, but don't make smaller units. Clearvue is the other big name with reliable fan curves etc (from what I gather) but don't have HEPA filters.
                        Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club.

                        http://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

                        Comment

                        • Thread Continues Below...

                        • #27

                          Re: Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

                          I highly recommend the Delta 50-767. It's not cheap as the Craftex but I think it's a case of getting what you pay for. You've asked about strong air movement (CFM) and about using a HEPA filter. That leads me to believe you're serious about air quality. That's why I bother to write this at all because the discussion is really about air quality, not simple dust collection.

                          I have the Delta and a 1 micron top bag on it. I also have an air quality meter that I use to monitor the air quality in the shop as I work. Depending on how I am able to connect the Delta to each tool I am able to keep the air quality decent on some tools, eg. table saw, and not so well on others, eg. some router operations. Some tools are nearly impossible to capture the majority of dust as it's created. So I want to be able to reduce the dust after the machining as quickly as possible.

                          Letting the Delta run like an air cleaner works great. For example, after a good session with the router on Thursday I was able to bring the small particle count down from ~12,000ppm to ~70ppm in about 15-20 minutes with just the dust collector running with open hoses laying on the shop floor. For reference, you want the small particle count at least below the ambient (outside) air and generally 300ppm or lower.

                          [Just as an FYI, we had some more of the same operation to do a bit later. The young fellow I was working with came up with an interesting way to do better dust collection for that same operation and this time we were able to keep the dust generation down to ~5,000ppm. And had a whole lot less cleanup to do!!]

                          My Delta runs just fine on a 15A circuit. Don't let the 1.5HP rating bother you versus other 2HP rated units. It's the performance (CFM) and long term quality that matter. The Delta excels at both. To save myself a bunch of typing, here's a quote from a helpful review on Amazon for this unit:

                          6 people found this helpful.
                          5.0 out of 5 stars The Delta 50-767 is really tall.
                          ByMikeInOhio on September 28, 2015 - Published on Amazon.com

                          The model 50-767 dust collector by Delta Power Equipment is a capable tool. The 1.5 hp motor has enough strength to get the job done and the filter bag traps particles as small as 1 micron.

                          The tool arrived well packed and undamaged. I particularly like the satin black finish Delta has applied. I anticipate it will be easily repairable.

                          Most manufacturers are now including a partial barrier between the bottom collection bag and the upper filter bag, and Delta is no exception. The barrier minimizes the amount of dust pushed upward into the filter thereby extending the time between cleanings. Delta has chosen the “donut hole” design (see photo) and it seems to work pretty well.

                          And speaking of the bags, the clear bottom collection bag is 6 mil thick and can be attached with a traditional metal band clamp or the new-style flexible inside ring. Delta includes parts for both options. I chose the inside ring and to make my life easier, I folded the bag over the ring and used packing tape to secure it. This makes inserting it into the housing so much easier. The upper cloth bag is attached using the flex-ring method only.

                          The tool is designed to connect to a 6 inch dust hose but Delta includes a “Y” fitting that transforms the 6 inch inlet into two 4 inch ones. A removable cap seals one of the 4 inch inlets in case you only need one.

                          This tool is tall - I mean REALLY tall. At 93 inches it just barely fits in a room with 8 foot ceilings. Before ordering this dust collector, I checked the Delta web site and it said the total height was 83 inches. Not so! It is definitely 93” tall (see photo). Unfortunately, my basement shop has only 87 inches of clearance to the ceiling joists. Luckily the top bag fits between my ceiling joists and conforms to them when I switch the unit on. (see photo). But I can’t roll the collector around without collapsing the bag-support rod - an operation that requires no tools and takes about 15 seconds.

                          Old-school dust collectors with the switch down near the floor require you to bend down to switch them on so I really appreciate the Delta’s high-mount motor/switch. Users in small shops with few steps between the dust collector and the machinery may not feel the need to purchase a remote control.

                          Dust collectors are really loud, no matter the brand. You’ll want ear protection if you operate it in an enclosed area.

                          A few words about the assembly instructions. They’re terrible! Delta isn’t alone in this regard. It seems to be a trend among many manufacturers to invest very little in the documentation. But don’t worry; there aren’t that many parts and you’re given a picture of how the dust collector should look when complete so it isn’t a huge challenge. It’s just annoying.

                          Overall I give the Delta 50-767 five stars despite the annoying assembly instructions. It’s a good tool that is built to last.


                          I hope you find this helpful in thinking about where you want to go with air quality control.

                          ...ken...

                          Comment


                          • #28

                            Re: Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

                            I generally avoid DC threads as they tend to become too polarizing. I have a delta 50-850 1.5hp with upgraded filter bags. I wheel it to each machine and keep the hose length short. Works okay for my needs. I also have a shop air cleaner that I run. At some point I may add a super dust deputy to improve separation and make it easier to empty the chips/dust.
                            ---
                            Randy

                            Comment


                            • #29

                              Re: Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

                              Comically, I haven't yet decided on a dust collector, but I did manage to get three 20-amp 220v circuits to the garage

                              Here's my wishlist (in order of importance)
                              • Powerful enough for single tool usage - I don't intend to install elaborate ducting, probably a flex line for my table saw and router (installed in the table saw wing) which will be connected most of the time, and then a flex line to run to my milling tools (bandsaw, jointer, planer) as needed.
                              • Good filtration -- HEPA is a plus
                              • Footprint as small as possible
                              • Economical
                              I think I've narrowed my choices down to the following. Curious if anyone has any thoughts.

                              2 HP Craftex Cyclone - $1599 at Busy Bee
                              • Decent power?
                              • Nice all in-one package that I can pick up locally.
                              • Only 0.3 micron canister filter. I assume I could upgrade to a HEPA filter, but at what cost?
                              1.5HP Oneida Mini Gorilla - $1699 at Atlas Tools
                              • 1.5HP vs the Craftex' 2HP
                              • Hepa filter
                              • fairly small
                              1.5HP DustFX Cylone - $1629 + $150 shipping from CWI
                              • 1.5HP vs the Craftex' 2HP
                              • Hepa filter
                              • Looks snazzy (ha!)
                              • Have to pay for shipping
                              • Unknown brand to me?
                              2HP Craftex CX400 with Canister Filter + Super Dust Deputy - $669 + 250 = $919s
                              • 2HP
                              • No Hepa filter
                              • Bigger footprint
                              • More DIY (have to buy drum, build new cart to support the SDD etc).

                              Comment


                              • #30

                                Re: Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

                                The DustFX is not a true HEPA, you notice they don't spell it properly. The Oneida filter is true HEPA and washable (lifetime investment), and their machine will perform according to specs to boot. The Craftex may boast impressive numbers, but they along with all the other asian clones of are infamous for being creative with their numbers. Go with the Oneida....there are reasons why they win so many awards.
                                Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club.

                                http://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X