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  • mwarning
    started a topic Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

    Dust Collection for New Hobbyist?

    I am starting to built out a small shop in my 2 car garage. I have a table saw, jointer, planer, mitre saw and a bunch of hand tools at this point.

    I was searching Kijiji for some dust collectors and found one that I've never seen before -- was curious about its abilities. Anyone ever use one like this?

    http://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/ba...ationFlag=true

    Worth checking out, or perhaps stick to a more traditional Craftex model or similar?

    Thanks for any advice.

  • altiplano
    replied
    Originally posted by mwarning View Post
    So after all this research, a good family friend is donating me his Oneida Mini Gorilla Portable. It's the 220v model, but only 1.5HP, but heck I can't complain! This should hold me over nicely until I decide to upgrade.

    Now the question is -- I think my plan is to keep this thing hooked up to my table saw and router table (which is in the wing of my table saw) the majority of the time and then swap over to the jointer or planer as needed. This means a relatively short run that will be in flex hose -- maybe 8 feet to the router table and then another 2-3 feet to the table saw.

    Given the situation, does it make sense to reduce to 4" from the dust collector or try and run 5" to under the router table and then do 2 4" take offs for each tool? Anyone with a setup similar -- can you comment on how you have your blast gate(s) setup? It's all very tight under there

    I have the Incra Cleansweep which has a built in blast gate, but I assume I'd want one to block the table saw off when i'm using the router..
    Don't reduce to 4".

    I see the inlet on that model is 5", keep your runs at 5" and reduce off a wye if you need to split at a tool, or at the tool if you need to accommodate a smaller port.

    I have an 2 HP Oneida Commercial, it's a bit of an older model - this is my setup more or less... sorry for the bad drawing.




    The blast gates are at the top of each drop, except off the first one - since it has 2 runs, they are after the 2nd wye.

    My tablesaw, jointer and bandsaw don't move so they are dedicated hookups.

    The 3rd drop is in the middle of my shop and I'll use mostly with my planer which gets wheeled out when I use it, but I connect 10' of flex hose here and use it for anything else that might benefit from additional dust collection, even stuff I'll use a vacuum with as well - mostly the router and miter saw.

    This setup works for me, but I'm not a pro, it could probably be done better. I mostly just used the stuff that came with my collector when I bought it, I hope it gives you some ideas anyway... Good luck!
    Last edited by altiplano; 10-14-2017, 10:30 PM.

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  • Ken in Regina
    replied
    Originally posted by mwarning View Post
    So after all this research, a good family friend is donating me his Oneida Mini Gorilla Portable. It's the 220v model, but only 1.5HP, but heck I can't complain! This should hold me over nicely until I decide to upgrade.
    Don't worry about horsepower readings that are taken about 5 microseconds before the motor melts down. If that Oneida is like my Delta it will work at least as well as the 2HP rated tools. Over the years I've seen many comparison articles and my 1.5HP Delta has always rated at or near the top in dust collection effectiveness for conventional bagged units when compared with mainly 2HP units.

    beakie That's what I do. Many years ago when I first got my Delta I had lots of good intentions to pipe the shop and eventually go to a cyclone. All these years later I've never found any compelling reason to do either. It spends most of its time hooked to the tablesaw. It's a minor thing to switch the hose to a different tool (standalone router table, jointer, planer, all on wheels). Since I bought my particle counter some years back I've also not felt any need to move to a cyclone (or add an air cleaner). My bag DC will clean the shop air from over 12,000ppm (two cuts with the chop saw!!) down to double digits in about 30 minutes. The important thing is to get a good bag on it, of course.

    ...ken...

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  • beakie
    replied
    I would keep 5" as much as possible, and when you do transition down, try to find tapered reducers.

    Unless you use the router table often, why not use 1 flex hose total and move it when needed? in my shop (with current DC) I use the table saw, jointer & planer most of all. so I use 1 flex hose, and move it to the machine that needs it. any extra hose/duct only reduces the efficiency of the DC, especially if it's not even being used.

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  • mwarning
    replied
    So after all this research, a good family friend is donating me his Oneida Mini Gorilla Portable. It's the 220v model, but only 1.5HP, but heck I can't complain! This should hold me over nicely until I decide to upgrade.

    Now the question is -- I think my plan is to keep this thing hooked up to my table saw and router table (which is in the wing of my table saw) the majority of the time and then swap over to the jointer or planer as needed. This means a relatively short run that will be in flex hose -- maybe 8 feet to the router table and then another 2-3 feet to the table saw.

    Given the situation, does it make sense to reduce to 4" from the dust collector or try and run 5" to under the router table and then do 2 4" take offs for each tool? Anyone with a setup similar -- can you comment on how you have your blast gate(s) setup? It's all very tight under there

    I have the Incra Cleansweep which has a built in blast gate, but I assume I'd want one to block the table saw off when i'm using the router..
    Last edited by mwarning; 09-13-2017, 09:35 AM.

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  • mwarning
    replied
    Originally posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    There's also this one for sale in the swap meet...............Rod

    https://forum.canadianwoodworking.co...dust-collector
    Yah, I saw this one. Looks good -- although it seems to me that the impeller being before the cyclones means that larger chunks (think planer etc) will be flying through it like a single stage. Any downside? Also, I assume all of the fine dust also ends up in the barrels? Could be a reasonable deal if HEPA filters could be found for it and not cost an arm and a leg.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rod Sheridan
    replied
    There's also this one for sale in the swap meet...............Rod

    https://forum.canadianwoodworking.co...dust-collector

    Leave a comment:


  • altiplano
    replied
    Get the Oneida.

    I have a 2hp and it works great.

    I wouldn't hesitate to buy their products again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ken in Regina
    replied
    I agree with the previous posts about buying proven quality. I have had Delta's 1.5HP portable for over 10 years and am still completely happy with it. A 1.5HP advertised rating from Oneida or Delta is a lot more honest, and likely more usable, than most other companies' 2HP ratings.

    It's on wheels so it's easy to move near the tool. You can attach either a single 6" flex hose or two 4" hoses (using the Y adapter that came with it).

    The only modification was to replace the top bag that came with it with a HEPA top bag (I use a heavy duty plastic bag for the bottom bag.

    One of the things I love about it is that it's also a heckuva great air cleaner. I can cut stuff with my mitre saw and clean the air from high 4- to low 5-digit parts per million (ppm) readings down to 2-digit readings in a half hour or so.

    ​​​​​​...ken...
    Last edited by Ken in Regina; 09-07-2017, 07:24 PM.

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  • Rod Sheridan
    replied
    As Brent indicated buy the Oneida, their business is dust collection that conforms to industry accepted test methods, so you get what's advertised.

    My Oneida has 3% higher performance than claimed, when I tested several import collectors, they provided only 30 to 50% of claimed performance

    I would never buy a dust collector that didn't come with a performance curve to show the static pressure at different air flow rates.

    The other machines don't give you any performance curves, which let's you know that they don't want you to know, how poorly they perform.

    I've had my Oneida cyclone for 15 years now, best investment I made................Regards, Rod.

    P.S. If you look at the Oneida 1500 stationary cyclone which is also 1.5HP, you'll notice how much more airflow it has than the portable system. To collect dust from the table saw, you'll need 400 to 600CFM at the cabinet and about 200 above the blade. The portable doesn't have that capacity.
    Something to think about, as you don't want to be replacing your collector in a few years.
    Last edited by Rod Sheridan; 09-07-2017, 01:48 PM.

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  • timberframe
    replied
    The DustFX is not a true HEPA, you notice they don't spell it properly. The Oneida filter is true HEPA and washable (lifetime investment), and their machine will perform according to specs to boot. The Craftex may boast impressive numbers, but they along with all the other asian clones of are infamous for being creative with their numbers. Go with the Oneida....there are reasons why they win so many awards.

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  • mwarning
    replied
    Comically, I haven't yet decided on a dust collector, but I did manage to get three 20-amp 220v circuits to the garage

    Here's my wishlist (in order of importance)
    • Powerful enough for single tool usage - I don't intend to install elaborate ducting, probably a flex line for my table saw and router (installed in the table saw wing) which will be connected most of the time, and then a flex line to run to my milling tools (bandsaw, jointer, planer) as needed.
    • Good filtration -- HEPA is a plus
    • Footprint as small as possible
    • Economical
    I think I've narrowed my choices down to the following. Curious if anyone has any thoughts.

    2 HP Craftex Cyclone - $1599 at Busy Bee
    • Decent power?
    • Nice all in-one package that I can pick up locally.
    • Only 0.3 micron canister filter. I assume I could upgrade to a HEPA filter, but at what cost?
    1.5HP Oneida Mini Gorilla - $1699 at Atlas Tools
    • 1.5HP vs the Craftex' 2HP
    • Hepa filter
    • fairly small
    1.5HP DustFX Cylone - $1629 + $150 shipping from CWI
    • 1.5HP vs the Craftex' 2HP
    • Hepa filter
    • Looks snazzy (ha!)
    • Have to pay for shipping
    • Unknown brand to me?
    2HP Craftex CX400 with Canister Filter + Super Dust Deputy - $669 + 250 = $919s
    • 2HP
    • No Hepa filter
    • Bigger footprint
    • More DIY (have to buy drum, build new cart to support the SDD etc).

    Leave a comment:


  • rhscdn
    replied
    I generally avoid DC threads as they tend to become too polarizing. I have a delta 50-850 1.5hp with upgraded filter bags. I wheel it to each machine and keep the hose length short. Works okay for my needs. I also have a shop air cleaner that I run. At some point I may add a super dust deputy to improve separation and make it easier to empty the chips/dust.

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  • Ken in Regina
    replied
    I highly recommend the Delta 50-767. It's not cheap as the Craftex but I think it's a case of getting what you pay for. You've asked about strong air movement (CFM) and about using a HEPA filter. That leads me to believe you're serious about air quality. That's why I bother to write this at all because the discussion is really about air quality, not simple dust collection.

    I have the Delta and a 1 micron top bag on it. I also have an air quality meter that I use to monitor the air quality in the shop as I work. Depending on how I am able to connect the Delta to each tool I am able to keep the air quality decent on some tools, eg. table saw, and not so well on others, eg. some router operations. Some tools are nearly impossible to capture the majority of dust as it's created. So I want to be able to reduce the dust after the machining as quickly as possible.

    Letting the Delta run like an air cleaner works great. For example, after a good session with the router on Thursday I was able to bring the small particle count down from ~12,000ppm to ~70ppm in about 15-20 minutes with just the dust collector running with open hoses laying on the shop floor. For reference, you want the small particle count at least below the ambient (outside) air and generally 300ppm or lower.

    [Just as an FYI, we had some more of the same operation to do a bit later. The young fellow I was working with came up with an interesting way to do better dust collection for that same operation and this time we were able to keep the dust generation down to ~5,000ppm. And had a whole lot less cleanup to do!!]

    My Delta runs just fine on a 15A circuit. Don't let the 1.5HP rating bother you versus other 2HP rated units. It's the performance (CFM) and long term quality that matter. The Delta excels at both. To save myself a bunch of typing, here's a quote from a helpful review on Amazon for this unit:

    6 people found this helpful.
    5.0 out of 5 stars The Delta 50-767 is really tall.
    ByMikeInOhio on September 28, 2015 - Published on Amazon.com

    The model 50-767 dust collector by Delta Power Equipment is a capable tool. The 1.5 hp motor has enough strength to get the job done and the filter bag traps particles as small as 1 micron.

    The tool arrived well packed and undamaged. I particularly like the satin black finish Delta has applied. I anticipate it will be easily repairable.

    Most manufacturers are now including a partial barrier between the bottom collection bag and the upper filter bag, and Delta is no exception. The barrier minimizes the amount of dust pushed upward into the filter thereby extending the time between cleanings. Delta has chosen the “donut hole” design (see photo) and it seems to work pretty well.

    And speaking of the bags, the clear bottom collection bag is 6 mil thick and can be attached with a traditional metal band clamp or the new-style flexible inside ring. Delta includes parts for both options. I chose the inside ring and to make my life easier, I folded the bag over the ring and used packing tape to secure it. This makes inserting it into the housing so much easier. The upper cloth bag is attached using the flex-ring method only.

    The tool is designed to connect to a 6 inch dust hose but Delta includes a “Y” fitting that transforms the 6 inch inlet into two 4 inch ones. A removable cap seals one of the 4 inch inlets in case you only need one.

    This tool is tall - I mean REALLY tall. At 93 inches it just barely fits in a room with 8 foot ceilings. Before ordering this dust collector, I checked the Delta web site and it said the total height was 83 inches. Not so! It is definitely 93” tall (see photo). Unfortunately, my basement shop has only 87 inches of clearance to the ceiling joists. Luckily the top bag fits between my ceiling joists and conforms to them when I switch the unit on. (see photo). But I can’t roll the collector around without collapsing the bag-support rod - an operation that requires no tools and takes about 15 seconds.

    Old-school dust collectors with the switch down near the floor require you to bend down to switch them on so I really appreciate the Delta’s high-mount motor/switch. Users in small shops with few steps between the dust collector and the machinery may not feel the need to purchase a remote control.

    Dust collectors are really loud, no matter the brand. You’ll want ear protection if you operate it in an enclosed area.

    A few words about the assembly instructions. They’re terrible! Delta isn’t alone in this regard. It seems to be a trend among many manufacturers to invest very little in the documentation. But don’t worry; there aren’t that many parts and you’re given a picture of how the dust collector should look when complete so it isn’t a huge challenge. It’s just annoying.

    Overall I give the Delta 50-767 five stars despite the annoying assembly instructions. It’s a good tool that is built to last.


    I hope you find this helpful in thinking about where you want to go with air quality control.

    ...ken...

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  • timberframe
    replied
    Originally posted by mwarning View Post
    Yah, i want to start with something that works on a 15amp circuit. Can a HEPA filter be added to any of the inexpensive Craftex models (1HP etc?)
    you can get the retro fit filters for sure, but you'll find the performance of those 1HP units inadequate with respect to suction/air volume/SP etc. The manufacturers data on such models are infamous for being exaggerated. Many many many people here and in other forums have stated their regrets for buying cheaper, lower powered units as a starter unit and wish they had gone big at the outset. I strongly suggest you try your best to pinch your pennies a little longer, use a dust mask and broom for a little longer and get a unit from a respected manufacturer that you may well keep till your estate sale.

    Something like this is acceptable for most machines (one at a time) and has fan curves provided by the manufacturer that are seen as reliable, and independent-lab certified filters.
    https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=XXPM010100H&CatId={B75F8739-54DE-47CA-A8FE-4FE9AEFDCC1C}

    There are other industrial manufacturers of course that offer similar, but don't make smaller units. Clearvue is the other big name with reliable fan curves etc (from what I gather) but don't have HEPA filters.

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