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  • Convert 1hp DC to two stage w/ cyclone?

    I am on the fence about buying a new (or used - looking) 1 hp or 2 hp dust collector. Leaning towards one of the craftex models from BB. Assuming that style I am wondering if anyone has successfully converted a 1hp unit to two stage with a cyclone separator.

    What I really mean is did you find the original performance could handle the addition of the cyclone, was it worth the effort? Or is this only realistic option for a 2hp (or 1.5 hp) and above? ....does your answer change if the 1hp conversion to a two stage is with a thien baffle (or similar)? If i can be even more specific, is there a rule of thumb for min stock cfm in order to go to two stage? I know there are suggestions our there for cfm per tool type connected and don’t want to drop below this if a 1hp unit’s stock cfm is lowered by addition of 2nd stage.

    Thanks


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  • #2

    Re: Convert 1hp DC to two stage w/ cyclone?

    I've had the 1 HP unit. I sold it. I think 2 HP minimum is required.
    Wally in Calgary likes this.
    Cheers
    Randy

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    • #3

      Re: Convert 1hp DC to two stage w/ cyclone?

      i've had the same delta shopmaster 1hp dc for years. i added a garbage can with "cyclone" lid when i bought it

      im very pleased with its operation and convienience

      one nice thing about mine is that the garbage can separator fits under the dc intake and fits on the mobile stand

      sure a bigger one might be better, but mine is so easy to roll around complete with garbage can/separator

      i also very rarely have to empty the bag, i guessing once every 20 or so fillups for the garbage can which of course is far easier to empty
      my shop is a beaver lodge
      steve, sarnia, ont




      1940's Craftmaster Lathe

      https://www.facebook.com/artistryinwoodca/

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      • #4

        Re: Convert 1hp DC to two stage w/ cyclone?

        Get the bigger one.
        ​​​​​​

        ​​​​​​

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        • #5

          Re: Convert 1hp DC to two stage w/ cyclone?

          I have used a 1HP (single stage); had a good 1.5HP for sometime, and now a 5HP cyclone. It has the bare minimum 1000CFM needed at the outlets of machines (as I measured them).
          The smaller impellers are not capable of the added SP of a cyclone without significant drop in CFM.With a smaller cyclone, short runs, and a 2HP you might get an Ok suction. DC is something you shouldn't go cheap.
          Remember, we are here to share, learn, and enjoy. Relax.

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          • #6

            Re: Convert 1hp DC to two stage w/ cyclone?

            Originally posted by mreza
            I have used a 1HP (single stage); had a good 1.5HP for sometime, and now a 5HP cyclone. It has the bare minimum 1000CFM needed at the outlets of machines (as I measured them).
            The smaller impellers are not capable of the added SP of a cyclone without significant drop in CFM.With a smaller cyclone, short runs, and a 2HP you might get an Ok suction. DC is something you shouldn't go cheap.
            When you say a smaller cyclone do you have a recommendation? For reference most of the 2 hp collectors I had looked at have about 12” impellers if that helps to make a suggestion. I was also thinking about a super dust deputy.
            Thanks


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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            • #7

              Re: Convert 1hp DC to two stage w/ cyclone?

              I'd get the SDD XL if you were doing a conversion with a 2hp, and get the biggest fan you can find.

              I wonder though, why don't you just go get one of these?

              2HP Oneida Dust Gorilla - $1000 - Oakville

              https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/o...ationFlag=true

              3HP Oneida Super Dust Gorilla - $1500 - Toronto

              https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/c...ationFlag=true

              vs...

              SDD XL $310 ($239.95 USD)
              Craftex CX400 2HP $745.00
              = $1055 + tax = ~$1200
              Plus you need a bin
              Plus unknown performance
              Plus unknown filter performance
              Plus messing around

              For about the same price as the real deal...

              I have an older model Oneida w/ 2HP motor, 13.5" fan, 95sqft spunbond filter, and pretty basic but complete ducting.

              It blows the pants off the GI w/ 1.5HP motor, 11" fan, and trash can separator it replaced, which only had a 10' run of flex hose.

              It's not even close...

              - Looks like that first one needs a new bottom for the filter... easy to get or make though...
              ​​​​
              Last edited by altiplano; 10-30-2017, 03:09 PM.

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              • #8

                Re: Convert 1hp DC to two stage w/ cyclone?

                Originally posted by Jwan12 View Post

                When you say a smaller cyclone do you have a recommendation? For reference most of the 2 hp collectors I had looked at have about 12” impellers if that helps to make a suggestion. I was also thinking about a super dust deputy.
                Thanks


                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                Hi, the first thing to do when looking at dust collectors is to ignore the motor power and impeller size, those parameters are of no use to anyone except for the collector designer.

                What you need to look at is the performance curves of the dust collector with the filters included, that will tell you whether the unit can provide the required airflow at the static pressure YOUR duct and YOUR machines require.

                If the dust collector manufacturer can't supply that information, skip them.

                The next issue is filtration, since my system returns the air to my shop, I need a HEPA grade filter.

                I have a 1.5 HP Oneida cyclone with a very advanced impeller design, I have short runs of ducting and the maximum CFM I need is 600 at 4" of water column so that unit works fine, it also has a HEPA filter. The shop air is cleaner than the outside ambient air.

                I've measured a few of the "standard" type collectors, typically they can't deliver even half of their rated airflow, so I suggest that you look for a vendor that will supply performance curves that meet industry standard test methods, the remainder is simply snake oil.

                Regards, Rod.
                Work is the curse of the riding class.

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                • #9

                  Re: Convert 1hp DC to two stage w/ cyclone?

                  Originally posted by altiplano
                  I'd get the SDD XL if you were doing a conversion with a 2hp, and get the biggest fan you can find.

                  I wonder though, why don't you just go get one of these?

                  2HP Oneida Dust Gorilla - $1000 - Oakville

                  https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/o...ationFlag=true

                  3HP Oneida Super Dust Gorilla - $1500 - Toronto

                  https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/c...ationFlag=true

                  vs...

                  SDD XL $310 ($239.95 USD)
                  Craftex CX400 2HP $745.00
                  = $1055 + tax = ~$1200
                  Plus you need a bin
                  Plus unknown performance
                  Plus unknown filter performance
                  Plus messing around

                  For about the same price as the real deal...

                  I have an older model Oneida w/ 2HP motor, 13.5" fan, 95sqft spunbond filter, and pretty basic but complete ducting.

                  It blows the pants off the GI w/ 1.5HP motor, 11" fan, and trash can separator it replaced, which only had a 10' run of flex hose.

                  It's not even close...

                  - Looks like that first one needs a new bottom for the filter... easy to get or make though...
                  ​​​​
                  Thanks, good points. I will need to reconsider and may come back with some questions. Same to you Rod about your post.


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                  • #10

                    Re: Convert 1hp DC to two stage w/ cyclone?

                    Those used units linked above are very good value for what they are.
                    A 2 stage dust collection has lots of parameters as Rod says but the most important one is the design of impeller as well as the cyclone body/cone. Bigger impeller has more air movement and the design of the cyclone will define how much separation of the dust from air will happen before air gets to the filters. Better separation usually needs certain size cyclone which will impose more SP and hence you need bigger impeller. Overall, it's better to go with a 2-stage one that was designed from the scratch with all these parameters considered.
                    Don't forget to allocate some budget for the ducting and all the fittings. It adds up quickly.
                    Remember, we are here to share, learn, and enjoy. Relax.

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                    • #11

                      Re: Convert 1hp DC to two stage w/ cyclone?

                      Only thing I can suggest stay away from any dust collector that has a regular 120 V plug outlet. Sure, you’ll be better off with a dust collector versus no dust collection.

                      you need CFM, you also need static pressure. I have about 1800 CFM (in 6” pipe) and about 1400 CFM through a 5 inch pipe and about 20 inches water column. Air needs to move through the pipe at about 80-100 km/h just to keep the pipes clean . If you’re introducing A two stage a cyclone separator (or a thin separator) these numbers still need to be relevant. When you’re measuring the CFM, it should be relevant to the tool CFM requirement. I made this mistake personally and Rod straighten me out. I was giving too much CFM to one of my machines (but he owns the same machine). He did give me, “one of the kind backhand slaps” and said (did you read your manual?) yeah the manual stated 600 CFM, so oops, giving it too much was a odd situation for me( Who ever heard of too much CFM?) So I have to keep the 5 inch blast gate 50% closed to make magic happen. Sometimes too much CFM on some machines is not good. I guess, I learned the hard way! It probably doesn’t help that my water column is through the roof too.

                      And, It doesn’t help that my dust collector is pretty much all homemade.
                      Last edited by Matt Matt; 10-31-2017, 10:00 PM.
                      For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
                      Sir Isaac Newton.

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