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  • DGB_WAT
    started a topic Oneida Cyclone install thread - lots of photos

    Oneida Cyclone install thread - lots of photos

    I purchased an Oneida cyclone off Kijiji back in the summer and I finally have some time to start the installation. I plan on showing you my progress over the next few weeks in this thread. I hope you don't mind lots of photos

    The cyclone is about 10 years old and has a 2HP Leeson motor with a 13.5" impeller. The unit came with the standard Oneida filter, but I decided to upgrade to a pair or Wynn Environmental pleated filters (13F230NANO) with a total surface area of 460 square feet. Here is a photo of one of the filters. Dick Wynn recommended I go with filters without the inner cage to make it easier to clean so I took his advice.



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    I have a basement shop with a ceiling height of 89" so I don't have the height to connect the filters in series. Instead, I built a plenum box to attach to the output of the cyclone and hold both filters in parallel. The box is made from 3/4" and 1/2" Baltic Birch plywood and the joints are glued and taped with aluminum foil to ensure an air tight seal. I cut out the two filter holes with a router and a trammel and used T-nuts to allow me to attach and remove the filters without having to open the plenum. To help reduce turbulence within the box, I bent a piece of plywood around the curved forms shown in the first photo. I also stapled in place some scraps of carpet.






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    With the plenum box completed, it was time to work out the location for the cyclone and the filters. My biggest dust producer is a dual drum sander so I located the cyclone at that end of the shop. I built a bracket system and attached it to the wall to hold the motor and the impeller. With the help of a neighbour, we got the motor and impeller lifted into place and I breathed a sigh of relief when we let go and nothing came crashing down. I attached the plenum box to the motor housing with bolts and added a temporary 2x4 to hold up the far end. Next up, I will be ready to mount the filters and add a more permanent support for the plenum box.


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    Stay tuned for my next update coming soon.

    David





  • iamtooler
    replied
    The problem with shapers is splinters that peel off edges and block in turns.
    Rob

    Leave a comment:


  • mikeddd
    replied
    Originally posted by DGB_WAT View Post

    Hi Mike,
    My shaper does not have a port below the table and there is no shroud below the table so I would have to make something for the collection to be effective. Thanks for the suggestion - I'll have to see what I can rig up.

    David
    It might not be very easy to make any kind of shroud and still allow things to move. I’m surprised that that shaper doesn’t have one. My old Delta is like that and the cabinet can get quite a lot of chips down there depending on the cutter your using.

    Could you mount a a plastic hood with magnets like you use on your sanders under there. The majority of the chips should end up behind and to the right of the spindle when running in counter clockwise rotation.

    Leave a comment:


  • DGB_WAT
    replied
    Originally posted by mikeddd View Post
    Sounds like your DC is working very well.
    On your shaper it looks like you only have a port for collection on the fence. Is there no way to collect the chips from below the table?
    I’ve found that for the best results you need both. There are certain operations such as running the cutter on top of the work peice where you won’t get everything. On mine with the two collection ports my shaper hardly kicks up any dust at all.
    Hi Mike,
    My shaper does not have a port below the table and there is no shroud below the table so I would have to make something for the collection to be effective. Thanks for the suggestion - I'll have to see what I can rig up.

    David

    Leave a comment:


  • mikeddd
    replied
    Sounds like your DC is working very well.
    On your shaper it looks like you only have a port for collection on the fence. Is there no way to collect the chips from below the table?
    I’ve found that for the best results you need both. There are certain operations such as running the cutter on top of the work peice where you won’t get everything. On mine with the two collection ports my shaper hardly kicks up any dust at all.

    Leave a comment:


  • DGB_WAT
    replied
    It has been about nine months since I installed my new dust collection system so it's time for an update. I'll start with some photos of the completed system where you will see that I have switched out my General 350 saw for a Hammer K3 sliding saw. I built a much improved overhead guard (click here for my post ) with a 4" dust port for the new saw. I also picked up a Hammer F3 shaper which meant I had to move my spindle sander and it now shares the dust collection drop with my disk sander. I built a second air cleaner which hangs above my saw; a similar unit collects the airborne dust above my lathe (click here to see my post).

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    Now that I've given you the tour, I will say that I have been very pleased with the new setup. I keep an eye on the small count reading with my Dylos monitor and it is typically between 50 and 250. According to the sticker on the back of the counter, anything under 75 is excellent, 75-150 is very good and 150-300 is good. I can easily get the number much higher than 250 for some operations as I will describe below. In those cases, I make sure I am wearing a respirator and have both of my air cleaners running and the number comes down over time. The count comes down even faster if I run the DC with a blast gate open. As a point of reference, the particle count on the main floor of our house as I type this is 180 which is higher than typical in the house. It could be because I just came up from the shop and have some dust on my pants.


    Here are some comments on the various machines.

    Drum sander - this is my biggest dust producer and with my old system, there was always dust in the air and on the platten. My new system has taken care of these problems. I need to get some particle count numbers near the sander while I am using it, but with the counter in the middle of the shop, I don't notice any increase in the count. The downside of using the sander is that it generates a lot of fine dust that gets into the filters and requires them to be cleaned. Since installing the system, I have cleaned the filters twice and I do this on my driveway using my leaf blower. I am amazed by the amount of very fine dust that gets blown out of the filters and it seems there is always more dust no matter how many times I circle around the filter with my leaf blower.

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    Jointer and Planer - Both of these machines generate a lot more chips than dust and I see a considerable improvement in the collection over my old system. I still have some chips escaping from the front of the planer when I am doing a lot of heavy planing, but I don't see any change in the particle count while running these machines. If anything, the number goes down a bit if the DC is running for an extended time.

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    Drill press - I have a 4" port that works well with the drill press. I have to be careful if I am drilling something small (like a pen blank) that the collection hose is not too close or it will suck up the workpiece. It's no fun having to fish through the dust bin looking for a pen blank :-)

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    Tablesaw - My new overhead guard has helped considerably to reduce the amount of airborne dust coming from the saw. Even so, there is dust escaping with some cuts such as if I am skimming the edge of a thick piece of wood. My particle counter is close to my saw so I notice the small and large particle count go up significantly in these cases - to well above 1000. Under the table collection is poor on the K3 even though I changed the internal 4" hose to 5". This is more of a nuisance rather than impacting the air quality.

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    Laguna bandsaw - I have both a 5" hose connected to the base of the saw and a 3" hose connected under the table near the blade and this has proven to be quite effective. I was ripping a bunch of maple on the bandsaw yesterday and the particle count was around 50 and stayed there for the time I was ripping. There is typically some dust on the table after cutting, but apparently not much is in the air.

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    Router table - I have a 4" connection below the table and a 3" hose connected to the fence and they both do a good job with collection. Some operations where I am not cutting an edge profile can generate quite a bit of dust so the particle count can go up.

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    Shaper - This is a relatively new machine for me so I don't have a lot of data yet. My initial observations are that most of the fine dust is collected by the 5" port and some small chips are spit out towards the infeed side of the machine and end up on the floor. I'll need to think about ideas to improve the collection of those chips.

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    Chopsaw - With my slider, I don't use my chopsaw as often. Overall, I would say that the collection from the saw is reasonably good and this is an example where leaving the DC running after I finish my cut helps to improve the air quality. This is probably because the 5" port is above the enclosure that surrounds the saw and it is like the wide end of a funnel so it is sucking in a lot of surrounding air and dust.

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    Lathe - I don't have a proper shroud for collecting dust from the lathe so right now, I am using a piece of 4" flex hose that I can position near the source of the dust. This is quite effective when sanding something small like a pen or a wine stopper, but doesn't do a great job when sanding a bowl. In addition, it is almost useless at picking up the chips and dust that are flying everywhere when rough turning anything. The biggest improvement in air quality with the lathe is because of my overhead air filter that draws in air through a 24" by 24" furnace filter and blows it out through a large pleated filter. When I have time, I would like to build some form of shroud that can take advantage of the two 5" ports that I have available at the lathe.

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    General bandsaw - I have a narrow blade in this saw for curved cuts or cutting thin wood. Some of the dust is collected by the 4" hose connected to the lower cabinet, but there is always dust on the table and on the floor around the saw. Fortunately, the 4" hose is easily disconnected from the front of the saw so I can quickly vacuum this up. I have an extension hose that I can connect to this hose and then use with my floor vacuum wand to clean up around the lathe. I don't have any particle count numbers while using this saw but I don't expect they would be great if I did much cutting.

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    Disk Sander - The built-in connection for this sander is a 4" port that is split into two smaller 3" hoses that connect below each disk. In the past, this was never very effective so with my new system, I have added a second 4" hose connected to a funnel like hood that is attached with rare earth magnets to the shroud surrounding the sanding disk. This has made a huge difference in collecting dust from the sander. In fact, the particle count goes down when running the DC with this blast gate open - probably because it is drawing in a lot of ambient air.

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    Oscillating spindle sander - The built-in collection for this sander is a 4" port that connects under the table. This works okay, but I find that using the hood from the disk sander is even better and appears to collect all of the fine dust that is generated.

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    If the most of the dust generated by the machines listed above is being effectively collected by my DC, than what causes the particle count to go up? There are a number of causes such as hand sanding, routing or even sweeping the floor. Routing can be especially bad, but I recently picked up an Oneida dust-free router hood which I use with my hepa filter equipped shop vac and this helps quite a bit. Even so, I use my respirator quite a bit in the shop; especially when I am doing something where the particle count is rising.


    One more note on the system. Earlier in the thread, someone commented that the drop going to my jointer and tablesaw should come off the side rather than being angled down. The thought was that this drop would fill when using the planer or any other machine further down the line in the system. I'm pleased to say that I've filled bags and bags of shavings from my planer and have not had any problems with filling the drop.

    Thanks for reading
    David

    Leave a comment:


  • DGB_WAT
    replied
    Originally posted by guitarchitect View Post
    Hi David - any update on your particle counts after using your various machines? I think that's the only loose end left hanging! I really enjoyed the thread and look forward to trying out some of your ideas - I especially like the double-filter idea because I'm looking for something very space-efficient but still effective. I may need to start with a a Craftex 2HP / Super Dust Deputy setup but I think it'll still help a lot!
    Terry,
    Thanks for the reminder on posting an update on my DC install. Overall, I have been very pleased with the outcome and my shop is certainly cleaner than it was with my old system. I'll get some photos of the completed system as well as some actual particle count numbers and post them in the next few days.

    Great work on your shop as well.

    David

    Leave a comment:


  • Randy in Calgary
    replied
    Originally posted by guitarchitect View Post
    Hi David - any update on your particle counts after using your various machines? I think that's the only loose end left hanging! I really enjoyed the thread and look forward to trying out some of your ideas - I especially like the double-filter idea because I'm looking for something very space-efficient but still effective. I may need to start with a a Craftex 2HP / Super Dust Deputy setup but I think it'll still help a lot!
    I have no complaints about mine, and the footprint is the same as the original DC configuration. It is surprisingly effective.

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  • guitarchitect
    replied
    Hi David - any update on your particle counts after using your various machines? I think that's the only loose end left hanging! I really enjoyed the thread and look forward to trying out some of your ideas - I especially like the double-filter idea because I'm looking for something very space-efficient but still effective. I may need to start with a a Craftex 2HP / Super Dust Deputy setup but I think it'll still help a lot!

    Leave a comment:


  • John JMK
    replied
    David I don't use an air cleaner and though I haven't done a particle count there doesn't appear to much escaping on a normal cut. The top which is a large adjustable shroud and the bottom has the casting surrounding the blade. Its not a major concern for me mainly because there are so many other ways to spew sawdust in daily operation. If I want to clear the air I run the dust collection extra time or turn on the spraybooth fan that moves about 5500 CFM through Merv 13 filters.

    Leave a comment:


  • DGB_WAT
    replied
    Originally posted by John JMK View Post
    David in the chart I made it up for generic testing. The ducts in my shop are all 6" to the machine location with a non restrictive 6" blast gate, then sized with adapters to the machine. My research indicated that was the optimal way to go. The chart shows how many blast gates were open during the test and the last column is the length of ductwork from the DC to the Machine including Flextube. Also the most disappointing number is the actual flow from my Felder K700SP slider, those rocket scientists in Austria really can't design a high CFM collection port from a saw blade. Unfortunately this is also true of all there saws and no real way to modify.
    We have been away for March break so I was offline for the week and I am catching up now.

    John - thanks for the clarification; that makes complete sense. That's too bad about the poor collection from the TS. Do you use an air cleaner to help with the escaping dust?

    David

    Leave a comment:


  • altiplano
    replied
    Originally posted by John JMK View Post
    Alti in 2005 was when there was a lot pressure on Oneida and many others to state more honest fan curves and how they arrived at those numbers not the typical inflated numbers. There was also a change in the DC design after that when Oneida adopted/took some of Bill Pentz's design for better fine dust separation. Better to look at the more accurate curves found on the site today which aren't quite as generous as the old numbers.
    Gotcha, I didn't realize the numbers I had were off. The manual was provided to me by Oneida a few years ago, but I see it's dated 2005.

    Leave a comment:


  • John JMK
    replied
    David in the chart I made it up for generic testing. The ducts in my shop are all 6" to the machine location with a non restrictive 6" blast gate, then sized with adapters to the machine. My research indicated that was the optimal way to go. The chart shows how many blast gates were open during the test and the last column is the length of ductwork from the DC to the Machine including Flextube. Also the most disappointing number is the actual flow from my Felder K700SP slider, those rocket scientists in Austria really can't design a high CFM collection port from a saw blade. Unfortunately this is also true of all there saws and no real way to modify.

    Leave a comment:


  • John JMK
    replied
    Alti in 2005 was when there was a lot pressure on Oneida and many others to state more honest fan curves and how they arrived at those numbers not the typical inflated numbers. There was also a change in the DC design after that when Oneida adopted/took some of Bill Pentz's design for better fine dust separation. Better to look at the more accurate curves found on the site today which aren't quite as generous as the old numbers.

    Leave a comment:


  • nnieman
    replied
    Originally posted by DGB_WAT View Post

    Hi Mo,
    I agree on the air cleaner. I built one shown in this post specifically for my lathe and it does a great job. I have another one of the pleated filters and a spare furnace blower to build one for the middle of my shop. I like the fact that I can leave it running after I leave the shop to clear out any residual airborne particles. I can then start my next session in the shop with with a low particle count. I'll post photos of this second filter when I get it done.

    David
    I attached mine to a timer switch, meant for a bathroom fan. I can turn it on for 1/2 hr when I'm doing something particularly dusty.

    Nathan

    Leave a comment:

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