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Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

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  • #16

    Re: Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

    I recently used wyes from Lowes, HD and Home Hardware. Some were crimped on the double end, some were crimped on the single end (I thought I was losing y mind). When needed, I hammered the crimped end flat and crimped the other end. I used 5' 28 gauge snap lock from Lowes. HD 26 was very expensive and only in 3' lengths. I tried to work with local HVAC supply but they were shockingly expensive except for the adjustable 90s. I have a 5 hp Clear Vue and it can only crush an unsupported snap lock pipe. When another fitting is attached, it keeps the pipe round and can't crush it with all the blast gates closed in some testing I did. When I put multiple lengths together, I don't align the seams to counteract the "ovaling" that might occur under suction. I wouldn't want to push it, though. My philosophy is this: if you aren't aware enough of your surroundings before you are about to use a power tool to check your blast gates, then you shouldn't be in the shop. If you crush your pipes, take it as a sign that you aren't paying enough attention and stop working for the day.
    nnieman likes this.

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    • #17

      Re: Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

      Just getting around to finishing this project and I've come up with a plan that I need some opinions on.

      Question is not whether or not tools should move as I'm happy with them where they are and the workflow for me is great.

      The crude Sketchup drawing below is more for placement. My dust collector is a King 2HP cyclone.

      My original plan was to simply run a "trunk" down the north wall (behind the jointer) to provide dust collection to the tools on that wall (currently just the jointer and router table). I would then as needed attach some flex to the dust collector and bring it over to the "island tools" on an as needed basis. I've kind of grown sick of that idea (lol), so I've come up with the below "plan". I do want to run the duct low on the north wall as I really do use the upper portion of the wall for lumber storage and would have nowhere for "drops". So that leaves me with coming down that wall, and then a gradual long sweep 90, up to the ceiling, then over to the middle of the garage and back towards the east wall with drops for both the table saw/drill press and finally the bandsaw and the planer. All would be run using 6".

      Anyone see any significant flaws with the plan? There would be a total of 4 long sweep 90's and then the wye's for the drops to the tools.

      Click image for larger version

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      • #18

        Re: Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

        Hi Mike, I wouldn't do that as it makes the run to the center machines about twice as long as required.

        I would "Y" off the dust collector and run your floor run behind the jointer as planned.

        The second run would go up and above your center island machines.

        Do a calculation for static pressure loss both ways and see what you think.

        The big issue is going to be the table saw as it will need the entire flow from the collector ( 500 to 600 CFM below and 200CFM above the blade).

        Regards, Rod.
        nnieman likes this.
        Work is the curse of the riding class.

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        • #19

          Re: Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

          Originally posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
          Hi Mike, I wouldn't do that as it makes the run to the center machines about twice as long as required.

          I would "Y" off the dust collector and run your floor run behind the jointer as planned.

          The second run would go up and above your center island machines.

          Do a calculation for static pressure loss both ways and see what you think.

          The big issue is going to be the table saw as it will need the entire flow from the collector ( 500 to 600 CFM below and 200CFM above the blade).

          Regards, Rod.
          Thanks Rod,

          I do like that idea myself -- but it would mean some trickery with the ducting right out of the dust collector (would need either a sharp elbow or perhaps a short piece of flex to connect the Y to the vertical ducting that would run up that wall next to the lumber storage to feed over to the island. Perhaps that sacrifice is better than the super long run. Would also save some $$ of course
          Last edited by mwarning; 04-12-2018, 09:24 AM.

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          • #20

            Re: Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

            Originally posted by mwarning View Post

            Thanks Rod,

            I do like that idea myself -- but it would mean some trickery with the ducting right out of the dust collector (would need either a sharp elbow or perhaps a short piece of flex to connect the Y to the vertical ducting that would run up that wall next to the lumber storage to feed over to the island. Perhaps that sacrifice is better than the super long run. Would also save some $$ of course
            I would try to avoid a sharp bend off the collector, it would impact your airflow for the entire system.

            Also remember that you don't have to be quite so linear about your system. You can do a run from the collector straight to the table saw, you don't need to add a bunch of 90 degree turns (I struggle with this too).

            Nathan

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            • #21

              Re: Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

              If I came up with the second "branch" right out of the DC and over to the post in the center, I'm wondering how to best handle all of the blast gates -- my thinking is either:

              A) Have a wye at the top of the post that allows for the 6" line to continue over to the table saw area and also down the post. The line down the post would have with an additional wye half way down for the "drop"/blast gate for the planer. Then further down the post the line would dead end with a blast gate and a small amount of flex for the bandsaw. The line that continues over to the right of the table saw would turn down and would end in blast gate and a short amount of flex to the table saw.

              or

              B) Same as A, but instead of having a wye at the top of the post, simply have a long sweep 90 that connects to the 6" duct running down the post. Then at the bottom of the post put another long sweep 90 that brings the line over to the table saw.

              B uses less duct work and has less clutter overhead which I like, but positioning a blast gate for the table saw would be more inconveniently placed -- I'd have to probably build some sort of extension contraption to open/close the blast gate which would likely be positioned almost behind the TS.

              Hope that makes sense. "B" would look something like this:

              Click image for larger version

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              • #22

                Re: Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

                This seems like a lot of effort and I donít honestly think a 2 hp machine is going to have the performance required with all that piping. Even if equipped with a cyclone and a canister filter it is basically a single machine system and to work across all of that piping is asking a lot of a 2 hp machine. I would be looking for a 5 hp machine to really provide the airflow that sort of system needs for optimal performance.
                Erik

                Canada's Island Paradise - Prince Edward Island

                Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club

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                • #23

                  Re: Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

                  Originally posted by ErikM View Post
                  This seems like a lot of effort and I donít honestly think a 2 hp machine is going to have the performance required with all that piping. Even if equipped with a cyclone and a canister filter it is basically a single machine system and to work across all of that piping is asking a lot of a 2 hp machine. I would be looking for a 5 hp machine to really provide the airflow that sort of system needs for optimal performance.
                  I am concerned about it too. A bigger dust collector isn't gonna happen in this shop -- so maybe I'm better of continuing to move it from tool to tool, or at very least, making two separate "branches" that aren't connected by default so that instead of having to literally go from tool to tool, I could say, connect to the "north wall" for the jointer and router table or connect to the "island" for the table saw, planer, and bandsaw. It's a hybrid approach of sorts I guess with a few blast gates to save moving around the flex pipe so often.

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                  • #24

                    Re: Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

                    Iím no expert by any means but it seems to me that whatever you lose by using longer branches will be gained by not using flex pipe. The less flex pipe the better, so if you can reduce the runs as much as possible while using rigid ducting but make things more practical by not having to continuously move a longer length of flex pipe this will be a net gain in your worlflow and not much loss, if any, in DC capacity.

                    NB My comment has no calculations to back it up.
                    Frank
                    SPCHT

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                    • #25

                      Re: Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

                      Originally posted by mwarning View Post
                      If I came up with the second "branch" right out of the DC and over to the post in the center, I'm wondering how to best handle all of the blast gates -- my thinking is either:

                      A) Have a wye at the top of the post that allows for the 6" line to continue over to the table saw area and also down the post. The line down the post would have with an additional wye half way down for the "drop"/blast gate for the planer. Then further down the post the line would dead end with a blast gate and a small amount of flex for the bandsaw. The line that continues over to the right of the table saw would turn down and would end in blast gate and a short amount of flex to the table saw.

                      or

                      B) Same as A, but instead of having a wye at the top of the post, simply have a long sweep 90 that connects to the 6" duct running down the post. Then at the bottom of the post put another long sweep 90 that brings the line over to the table saw.

                      B uses less duct work and has less clutter overhead which I like, but positioning a blast gate for the table saw would be more inconveniently placed -- I'd have to probably build some sort of extension contraption to open/close the blast gate which would likely be positioned almost behind the TS.

                      Hope that makes sense. "B" would look something like this:

                      Click image for larger version

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                      Iíd go for b

                      You arenít going to opening and closing those gate too much, even itís not conveniently located.

                      The one for my table saw requires me to walk around the saw & shaper.
                      Its really not a big deal in use, it stays open most of the time.

                      You generally donít go back and forth from one machine to another, at least I donít.

                      If you are doing that then leave them both open.
                      Your collection will be compromised but I donít think itís a big deal.
                      Iím thinking something like making quarter round. Running a board through the router table then ripping off a strip then repeat.

                      Nathan

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                      • #26

                        Re: Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

                        Originally posted by Frank D. View Post
                        Iím no expert by any means but it seems to me that whatever you lose by using longer branches will be gained by not using flex pipe. The less flex pipe the better, so if you can reduce the runs as much as possible while using rigid ducting but make things more practical by not having to continuously move a longer length of flex pipe this will be a net gain in your worlflow and not much loss, if any, in DC capacity.

                        NB My comment has no calculations to back it up.
                        In my first post, I was thinking about taking 6" out of the cyclone down the north wall (behind the jointer and the router) with drops for each. I was then thinking about having another 6" length of rigid duct running from the planer/jointer area down low behind the table saw and dead ending at the end of my table saw extension. Then I'd simply connect both sections of duct with a 10-12 foot piece of 6" flex, creating a simple U shape. The bandsaw and planer would essentially be at the end of the run, about 40 feet away (all on a 6" line), but like (15 rigid, 12 flex, 12 rigid).

                        Kinda crazy I guess -- but seems fairly simple.... who knows. I think I might just give it a try and see what happens. Like someone said earlier in the thread -- better to get something going than not having anything lol

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                        • #27

                          Re: Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

                          Well, enough analysis already -- going to install something this weekend

                          I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I just wanted to double/triple check on these wyes (pictured below) from Lowers. I know people have mentioned having to reverse the crimp on normal resedential wyes, but unless I'm missing something, if I keep the crimps towards the collector, I won't need to do anything at all?

                          I feel like i'm totally confused, but it seems so simple Any advice so I can put this to bed and move on with my life would be appreciated LOL.

                          Click image for larger version

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                          • #28

                            Re: Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

                            Mike, you are correct, those are the same fittings I used.................Rod.

                            P.S. Foil tape will seal all the air leaks.
                            Work is the curse of the riding class.

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                            • #29

                              Re: Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

                              Originally posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
                              Mike, you are correct, those are the same fittings I used.................Rod.

                              P.S. Foil tape will seal all the air leaks.
                              Thanks Rod,

                              Thought so. Did you have to crimp the inlet where you connected the flex for your drops? Ie. Is it likely that the flex will slip right over? Just want to know if I should pick up the crimp tool anyway when I'm at Lowes.

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                              • #30

                                Re: Duct work for my 2 car garage.. help?!

                                Hi Mike, yes I did crimp the pipe to attach flex, don't crimp it much, use maybe 1/2 the stroke of the crimper at first and try it out...........Rod.
                                Work is the curse of the riding class.

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